highlighted the most brazen lies. doubling down on propaganda is a bad way of trying to prove you're not just a kremlin asset.

if you really can't be bothered to look up how yanukovych's actions were unconstitutional and obviously in moscow's interest, if you genuinely think you can get away with calling foreign unmarked troops occupying government buildings "freedom fighters", and still be taken seriously, you need to adjust your expectations. all that post did is illustrate just how committed you are to lying about what actually happened in ukraine, in order to justify russia's warmongering. pathetic...

Can you back your argument up with facts instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks? I’m willing to listen and change my mind.

So your account basically goes

We sent money to train them to protest, John McCaine was there to support the protests, therefore, there was a secret cabal to violently oust the president that was kept totally secret and we never learned about it and they managed to get literally every Ukrainian in their legislature outside of the president's party to follow along.

Which requires a shit load of assumptions that we have no evidence for.

Versus the much simpler explanation.

Yanukovych was a Russian backed president that very quickly lost support of the people after he renegged on his promise to align towards the west and violently suppressed the resulting protests. The USA supported the protests from the sidelines without giving much in the way of material support as our involvement had already been sufficient in training NGOs to protest.


So yeah, I can easily concede that the USA was probably integral to the formation of the protests, but there is no evidence we supported them in the form of arms or military support.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Oct 7 2023 12:01am

learn to read. i presented the FACTS in a post just minutes ago. you then chose to re-frame them in absurd, moscow-friendly spins, that magically turned foreign invaders into "freedom fighters" and the unconstitutional actions of a rogue president into "doing what's best for the nation"... clearly disproving that facts will change your mind - they will just make you double down on obvious propaganda.

you're clearly NOT arguing in good faith, let alone with an open mind. what a silly lie...

What you did just now is the definition of arguing in bad faith.

You presented your view of events. I’m asking you to back them up with evidence of your point of view like I did with mine. Clearly we disagree on the fundamentals somewhere so I’m trying to understand where we deviate to come to different conclusions over the same version of history, hopefully.

An overwhelming majority of separatists or freedom fighters (how you call them in the west) were Ukrainian citizens born in Donbass.

This post was edited by Malopox on Oct 7 2023 12:17am

are you disputing the fact that yanukovych unilaterally withdrew from already agreed upon deals on moscow's behest?

are you disputing the fact that unmarked russian troops repeatedly invaded ukraine prior to the shelling of donbas?

those are the FACTS i presented in order to debunk the simplistic, one-sided characterisations "violent coup by the US" (when in fact it was yanukovych who had protesters killed) and "unprovoked shelling" (when in fact foreign invaders occupied administrative buildings) you subscribe to.

none of your conspiracies to justify russia's war mongering make any sense in the first place: yanukovych's impeachment had overwhelming popular support, and he unsurprisingly fled to his true puppeteers in russia, and pootin himself had to admit publicly that russian troops indeed operated in ukraine. see, that's the problem with your propaganda: you have nowhere to go once the thin layer of bs framing is removed...

People with big boy pants is angry cus Russia and China went together and created a new central bank, backed up by precious metals some years ago, unlike some other... Not the whole story at all, but a small piece of the puzzle.

This post was edited by TidsL on Oct 7 2023 12:46am

Again argument in bad faith and attempt at rephrasing

I’m asking you pretty simple questions that should be easily debunked with evidence you clearly possess as you sound very confident.

Could you please provide me with evidence it was not within Presidential authority vested by the adopted constitution to negotiate on behalf of the country and in the interest of majority that elected him into the office? The fact that you personally don’t like the decision does not remove constitutional rights in a sovereign country. If I’m wrong - I can be easily debunked. Please go ahead.

Could you give me any evidence that it was legal to remove acting president bypassing impeachment procedure provided by the Constitution?

Could you give me an argument without dodging it yet again, as to why citizens of a country that have had a legally elected President overthrown/illegally removed/forced our are not allowed to take up arms and defend themselves once legal options have been exhausted? With or without foreign help.

Ad hominem attacks are not arguments. We are trying to construct arguments here, not win good boy awards. I’m arguing for one side, you argue for the other. My personal traits or allegiances add no value to this discussion, whatever those might be (stop assuming by the way, you’ve been missing the target).

now you just resorted to parroting whatever i criticise about your propaganda, simplistically projecting whatever you do onto me, lol.

"bad faith rephrasing" says the kremlin asset who tried to sell foreign invaders (again, publicly admitted by pootin himself!) as "freedom fighters" and the unilateral actions of a president on a foreign nation's behalf as "negotiating on behalf of the country"...

imagine performing such wild mental gymnastic routines in order to defend war criminals. pathetic...

This is a debating subforum. I’m attempting to have a debate with you and yet again you refuse and resort to insults. Why bother posting then?

It is obvious that events transpired are not treated and interpreted the same way by various parties and are used to advance and further various agendas, otherwise we would not have seen a major conflict erupt.

If you come here to release your personal frustrations, you should learn how to control your emotions better and perhaps hit the gym. It really helps.