It’s great that the trump agenda of the “left is the enemy” is the number one cause according to that poll. I guess if they really wanted somebody that kicked the L ass they should vote for Mitch M

I mean, all the news organizations are covering what Trump is saying so I don't think it's fair to put the blame on Cheney. Remember that Trump and the media form a symbiotic relationship so it's in their best interest to amplify his voice.

I think you're underestimating the devotion that people have to Trump. I 100% agree that she is unfit for the current GOP. The current GOP wants to have Trump replace Reagan and for him to be deified. They want someone who is a "fighter" and Trump is the epitome of that. No one else can replicate that just like no one else was able to replicate Reagan's charisma (on the right). Trump will be the most important figure in GOP politics until he dies or is incapacitated.

Good point about the media self-interest, I hadnt thought of that.


I have to fundamentally disagree. But it's hard to "argue" substantively about the future, it's pretty much all just speculation at this point. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

Maybe I am totally wrong and Trump will remain the leader of the GOP through 2024, and be the nominee again. I'll believe it when I see it.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 5 2021 07:20pm

You really don't seem to follow the Republican party closely. Since a few days after Jan. 6th, Republicans, including McCarthy, have continued to bend the knee to Trump. He's not going to fade into irrelevance because the Republican party is a cult of personality around him, but even if it weren't, Republicans like McCarthy and Ted Cruz won't let him fade away. Their actions and rhetoric show us he's still the leader of the Republican party. And any poll of the 2024 primary shows Trump is the clear favorite. Nobody in the party with significant support will challenge him if he runs, because it's a cult.



On Cheney, a quote from a Jonah Goldberg column:



You Trump people are like battered wives who can't leave their man. Trump is the man who couldn't admit to losing... he's the one who caused the insurrection. He's the one who still persists in spreading the bullshit lie. For 5 years he's put his personal interests over the interests of the Republican party. But Cheney has to go because she's the only one in the party with balls.

Circular logic based on a false premise. Your entire perspective hinges on the assumption that the base's support for Trump is rooted in a cult of personality.

I have provided evidence to the contrary: the Echelon poll which I mentioned in my previous post shows that only 29% of Republicans want candidates with a personality like Trump's while 41% dont care and 30% do not want a candidate with a Trump-like personality. Additionally, it shows support for Trump's claims of a stolen election to be of lower importance than fighting spirit and Trump-like policies. According to this poll, Trump's personality is literally underwater with the friggin' GOP base while his policies and feisty approach still enjoy broad support.

These post-election and post-1/6 struggles within the GOP are a proxy fight over the future direction of the party, and this fight is just as much about what Trump symbolizes than about him as a person.






It's true that Trump can't move on. Which is exactly why I want the rest of the party to just ignore him when it comes to the stolen election. Cheney is basically the forum user who reflexively responds to the board's resident troll.



You sound like a broken record.

Trump was nothing more than a vessel. He's a rather unideological narcissist who wanted to be loved by the base, and who had the assertiveness and larger-than-life persona to actually pull off a hostile takeover of the party. In this capacity, he forced the party elites to drop some of their old stances and ideology and move in a more populist, less interventionist and less fiscon direction. Trump's big achievement is that he closed the gaping divide between party elites and party base a fair bit. This is why it was a good thing, at least up until a certain point, when he put his personal interest (be loved by the base and maintain power this way) above the party of old, the party of the Kochs, McCains and Bushes.

Things got derailed somewhere along the way and Trump changed from a catalyst of helpful realignment into a liability. In my opinion, the deeper reason why the base still sticks with Trump in spite of his lies and toxic behavior, and why it's lashing out so vigorously against Cheney, is that they dont want this policy/ideology realignment of the Trump years to be rolled back by swampy neocons like Cheney, or donor class acolytes like McConnell.




And again: polling data supports my perspective over the simplistic narrative that "it's all just a braindead personality cult, nothing more to it".

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 6 2021 06:30am

Basing your entire view of Republican voters on a set of Echelon polls seems strange. Just open your eyes. The idea that Trump's support isn't largely based on a cult of personality is completely laughable. Anyone who has observed American politics the last 5 years knows that loyalty to Trump is the most important thing.... it far surpasses policy considerations. I know plenty of Trump supporters who don't always like his cruelty towards others rhetorically, but hate any politician on the right who crosses him. People who care about policy don't look at Trump's behavior and incompetence year after year and give him a pass. Republicans voters do.

Lindsey Graham and Liz Cheney are both hawks. One gets to go on Hannity all the time and golfs with Trump, the other is being pushed out of the party. What matters is loyalty to Trump, that's it.




Why is it incumbent on others to move on when the most popular politician among Republican voters keeps yammering about the election being stolen? When you start from the premise that Trump is irrelevant, you end up in weird places.

Also worth noting most Republicans supported Trump's election lies, so telling him to move on doesn't really work. That's where things can end up when most voters are like you... they simply want Republican politicians to support Trump's position, or at least don't contradict him or criticize him on it, regardless of how truthful it is or how it affects our democracy.



I'm not the only broken record here. Your refusal to acknowledge Trump's cultish influence on the party is very strange to me... it's one of the most obvious, no-shit-sherlock things about where the Republican party has been the last 5 years. How many examples do you need of Republicans who were allied with the president and were elected by Trump voters until they were disloyal in some way(not on policy, but on his behavior in office), and then the party banished them?

This post was edited by IceMage on May 6 2021 07:14am

I guess we both keep coming back to our respective arguments time and time again. We'll have to wait and see how the next years play out. Perhaps I'm right and he gradually fades into irrelevance, perhaps I'm a clueless idiot and he's of course the nominee again in 2024. *shrug*

Republicans cannibalizing their smart women for cheeto jesus is a losing bet.

They like their women in their knees for sure.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 6 2021 08:34am

The current GOP House caucus has the highest number and share of females in its history. "Cannibalizing" my ass...

That's where they belong or in the kitchen with the transgenders . Tho i wouldn't let a transgender touch my food.