d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Official Atheist / Agnostic Thread
Prev18384858687193Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 63,058
Joined: Jul 15 2005
Gold: 152.00
Jul 13 2015 10:09pm
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jul 14 2015 12:06am)
Can you explain the logic of why that isn't true?

Pro-life supporters suggest abortion is murder. Miscarriage results in the death of a fetus.

I could see your argument for it being involuntary manslaughter rather than manslaughter.

If abortion is murder, then what is a miscarriage?


miscarriage is not due to negligence or anything within the mother's control, it's a natural bodily process

if the baby died because the mom was a smoker and drug addict then sure
Member
Posts: 60,934
Joined: Jan 24 2007
Gold: 351.00
Jul 13 2015 10:33pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 14 2015 12:09am)
miscarriage is not due to negligence or anything within the mother's control, it's a natural bodily process

if the baby died because the mom was a smoker and drug addict then sure


So if woman smokes during pregnancy and has a miscarriage would you suggest we charge her with a crime
Member
Posts: 63,058
Joined: Jul 15 2005
Gold: 152.00
Jul 13 2015 10:34pm
Quote (bitg_pj @ Jul 14 2015 12:33am)
So if woman smokes during pregnancy and has a miscarriage would you suggest we charge her with a crime


just don't post next time
Member
Posts: 78,723
Joined: Nov 30 2008
Gold: 493.00
Jul 13 2015 11:16pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 13 2015 11:09pm)
miscarriage is not due to negligence or anything within the mother's control, it's a natural bodily process

if the baby died because the mom was a smoker and drug addict then sure


to be consistent with the perspective that see's a fetus as a person the government must conduct an investigation into every miscarriage

being unwilling to commit resources towards this is admitting that they are less than persons

This post was edited by duffman316 on Jul 13 2015 11:16pm
Member
Posts: 12,379
Joined: Jul 14 2008
Gold: 2,620.00
Jul 13 2015 11:23pm
Quote (Voyaging @ 13 Jul 2015 23:34)
just don't post next time


Quote (duffman316 @ 14 Jul 2015 00:16)
to be consistent with the perspective that see's a fetus as a person the government must conduct an investigation into every miscarriage

being unwilling to commit resources towards this is admitting that they are less than persons


Exactly. The logic with "abortion is murder" runs into a very trick conundrum with miscarriage.

If you think miscarriages are involuntary manslaughter, then the logic is more consistent.
Member
Posts: 60,934
Joined: Jan 24 2007
Gold: 351.00
Jul 13 2015 11:35pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 14 2015 12:34am)
just don't post next time


How about you answer the question following your own line of reasoning kid
Banned
Posts: 616
Joined: Nov 27 2014
Gold: 454.67
Jul 14 2015 12:57am
Member
Posts: 63,058
Joined: Jul 15 2005
Gold: 152.00
Jul 14 2015 08:58am
Quote (bitg_pj @ Jul 14 2015 01:35am)
How about you answer the question following your own line of reasoning kid


Look at the quotes going back to the original image. The whole thing is based on a hypothetical of people who are pro-life, not my own opinion. I am just showing how poor the reasoning is of people who suggest a miscarriage is manslaughter if abortion is murder.

Quote (duffman316 @ Jul 14 2015 01:16am)
to be consistent with the perspective that see's a fetus as a person the government must conduct an investigation into every miscarriage

being unwilling to commit resources towards this is admitting that they are less than persons


No, it isn't. Do we conduct investigations into every death by natural causes? In fact, we investigate almost none of them.

Quote (ThatAlex @ Jul 14 2015 01:23am)
Exactly. The logic with "abortion is murder" runs into a very trick conundrum with miscarriage.

If you think miscarriages are involuntary manslaughter, then the logic is more consistent.


No, the logic is already consistent. The argument you're proposing is simply invalid.

I have however posted what I think are powerful arguments against abortion advocates that I invented. I'm not pro-life because I don't think ending life is necessarily wrong, but the most common arguments in favor of abortion have some seriously problematic logical conclusions that most abortion advocates wouldn't accept. I'll post then again if you're particularly interested.
Member
Posts: 78,723
Joined: Nov 30 2008
Gold: 493.00
Jul 14 2015 09:07am
Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 14 2015 09:58am)
No, it isn't. Do we conduct investigations into every death by natural causes? In fact, we investigate almost none of them.


death by natural cause is always determined as such by police or medical professionals after an assessment of the circumstances leading to death
Member
Posts: 63,058
Joined: Jul 15 2005
Gold: 152.00
Jul 14 2015 09:19am
Quote (duffman316 @ Jul 14 2015 11:07am)
death by natural cause is always determined as such by police or medical professionals after an assessment of the circumstances leading to death


Perhaps you're right. I don't know how miscarriages can be investigated like this though.

The argument was initially for all miscarriages being manslaughter, though, which is incredibly stupid. Your argument, for only miscarriages due to negligence being manslaughter, the issue is less clear.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev18384858687193Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll