Quote (SkySwallower @ Oct 24 2024 06:24am)

We have a ton of data for flu without social distancing, it would have been extremely surprising if those didn't go down. What are you comparing the COVID spread with social distancing to? We now have a mostly vaccinated population and still have more COVID cases than flu cases, it is simply more contagious.

Quote (Sioux @ 24 Oct 2024 01:14)

So weirdly, we can know exactly this. It's called excess mortality.

1% lethality on a virus that infected 100 million people is 1 million deaths. This was the spanish flu in the modern era where we could keep hospitalized patients alive on ventilators, otherwise millions more would have died.

Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Oct 24 2024 10:33am)

You are denying reality itself to support a number the government gave to you/provided you with. The idea that out of 100 million "infected" that 1%(yes I can do math ^SkySwallower) "one million died from Covid-19 EXCLUSIVELY".

Tell me what "exclusively" means. You are essentially saying out of those "ONE million" that ZERO had any co-morbidities is totally delusional and not based in reality. I'll give you the same examples again since you ignored them.

I get infected by Covid and I am an unhealthy slob who eats McDonalds everyday and weighs 400 lbs. Do you really say "Covid killed him" or do you say "congestive heart failure" FIRST.

I get infected by Covid and I am a 95 year old elderly person in a retirement home and my family is BANNED/PREVENTED from coming in close contact with me. I become so stressed and depressed because I can't hug my grandchildren before I die. Was it just Covid?

I get infected by Covid and I am a drug addict. One morning I wake up feeling sick from withdrawals and decide to do a little more heroin then normal. I overdose and die. I had Covid did it kill me?

I get infected by Covid and I am a motorcycle enthusiast. I go out for a ride and am T-boned going through an intersection. I die. Did Covid kill me.

Like so many others mentioned they manipulated the statistics themselves to induce FEAR into the public and to scare them into taking an experimental injection for something that was slightly more dangerous then the common cold/ flu. Why that year did they pretend the flu wasn't happening at all and it was all "Covid". Not only is that dishonest it's not based in reality.

Now let me use my real world example. I come from a very large family of 40 people on one side. Of those 40 guess which people were hospitalized when they got Covid(My two obese aunts who way easily 350lbs). Guess which people got Covid again and again and again. The people who got the vaccine. Anyone in my family who didn't get the vaccine and just lived their life as normal maybe got "Covid" one time in YEARS(could've been the common cold/flu and "omg this must be Covid").

The whole notion that we needed to be "locked down" for something not much more lethal then the common cold/flu(which kills many people every year) was a SCAM.

The fact that they shut down my Temple where I go to worship/pray/meditate was disgusting.

My Uncle lost his business because you know he was one of the "your business must close but Amazon/Walmart/Target/McDonalds can stay open!"

No logical person looking back at the lies Dr. Fauci said and all the government goons who changed their own narrative CONSTANTLY. One week they said this then the next week "oh it's not that".

My biggest issue is people not knowing that Covid-19 was made in military grade bio-lab in Wuhan, China where they had been researching it for a DECADE. This means they knew what Covid-19 was and what it would do if released on to the public.

Notice how the US government and Chinese government avoided RESPOSIBILITY by playing the "blame game" because both were COMPLICIT in the development of Covid-19.

So in "causal reality" if millions died from this guess where the blame goes? Chinese/US military. Guess what they said??? A fish market in Wuhan a bat took a shit on a goat and the goat pissed on fish and people ate it. Really bro?

Because most people in America and around the world have the memory of a goldfish(10 seconds) people just pretend now Covid-19 didn't happen.

Covid-19 caused my nieces to have speech development issues because they couldn't interact with other children. Education suffered and it set children/teens back intellectually development wise. That wasn't Covid it was "protocol".

Covid-19 bankrupted many people and turned them into drug addicts because they were stuck in their house staring at the TV/Phone.

Covid-19 destroyed countries dependent on "tourism" making it so bad they would starve so they migrated towards the United States because "Covid policy" almost killed them. Not Covid.

Do you see where I'm going with this? I can go all day my friend...why? Because it wasn't Covid that ruined the lives around me it was the POLICY/MANDATES and infringment on basic human rights.

It violated the Nuremberg Code but people pretend that wasn't the case. Should I go on? :wacko:

Quote (iLoveMyUsername @ 24 Oct 2024 09:41)

People hoarded toilet paper. That's how bad the npcs were programmed.

Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Oct 24 2024 04:33pm)

You are denying reality itself to support a number the government gave to you/provided you with. The idea that out of 100 million "infected" that 1%(yes I can do math ^SkySwallower) "one million died from Covid-19 EXCLUSIVELY".

Tell me what "exclusively" means. You are essentially saying out of those "ONE million" that ZERO had any co-morbidities is totally delusional and not based in reality. I'll give you the same examples again since you ignored them.

I get infected by Covid and I am an unhealthy slob who eats McDonalds everyday and weighs 400 lbs. Do you really say "Covid killed him" or do you say "congestive heart failure" FIRST. <- Yes, chances are you have been an unhealthy slob for a while and would have been for a while too

I get infected by Covid and I am a 95 year old elderly person in a retirement home and my family is BANNED/PREVENTED from coming in close contact with me. I become so stressed and depressed because I can't hug my grandchildren before I die. Was it just Covid? <- In that example COVID killed you, but the policies made your death even more shitty. But if you kill yourself because of lockdowns COVID didn't kill you.

I get infected by Covid and I am a drug addict. One morning I wake up feeling sick from withdrawals and decide to do a little more heroin then normal. I overdose and die. I had Covid did it kill me? <- No? You also do not appear in excess mortality statistics

I get infected by Covid and I am a motorcycle enthusiast. I go out for a ride and am T-boned going through an intersection. I die. Did Covid kill me. <- No? You also do not appear in excess mortality statistics

...

Quote (low-ki @ Oct 24 2024 03:12am)

so flu didn't spread because of lockdowns but covid did? :bonk:

Quote (SkySwallower @ 24 Oct 2024 09:56)

You might not understand the term excess mortality, do not believe in statistics or do not care about the numbers and want to keep believing what you believe anyways. If you tell me which of the three it is I can try a different approach.

And since we use fun anecdotes as data here apparently, everybody I know had COVID at least once, most of them multiplte times. That includes myself (obv), family, friends, work, sportsclub - we even had scheduled games not happening after the lockdowns because whole teams had COVID.

The fact that they shut down my Temple where I go to worship/pray/meditate was disgusting.- Those are the first places I would shutdown in a pandemic, churches stayed open here in germany while stores and schools had to close - what a joke.

Do you see where I'm going with this? I can go all day my friend...why? Because it wasn't Covid that ruined the lives around me it was the POLICY/MANDATES and infringment on basic human rights.- I am sure you can, you are clearly mad about it. A lot of people died, politics was often helpless, communication was bad for long stretches. I think you can be mad about the handling of COVID while still staying in reality.

There is a discussion to be had about the handling of COVID (which was not great all over the world), the value of real life interactions especially for children etc. But you have to base this discussion in facts, and those include a high death toll despite the measures we took. Sweden didn't do any lockdowns and kept schools open (afaik the whole time) and had a much higher mortality rate in their elderly at the time - this is a tradeoff you might be willing to do, but you have to be aware you are literally trading lifes for it.

One last remark to the comorbidity topic: COVID did kill very little healthy adults, I don't think that is disputed. I am lucky enough to still have 3 of my grandparents, and they all have different health complications for at least 20 years each by now (cancers, heart issues, diabetes, decreased lung function) despite relatively healthy lifestyles for decades - that is just part of aging. I would have been incredibly sad if they died to COVID and am happy I got another 3+ years with them.

Quote (SkySwallower @ Oct 24 2024 07:56am)

You might not understand the term excess mortality, do not believe in statistics or do not care about the numbers and want to keep believing what you believe anyways. If you tell me which of the three it is I can try a different approach.

And since we use fun anecdotes as data here apparently, everybody I know had COVID at least once, most of them multiplte times. That includes myself (obv), family, friends, work, sportsclub - we even had scheduled games not happening after the lockdowns because whole teams had COVID.

The fact that they shut down my Temple where I go to worship/pray/meditate was disgusting.- Those are the first places I would shutdown in a pandemic, churches stayed open here in germany while stores and schools had to close - what a joke.

Do you see where I'm going with this? I can go all day my friend...why? Because it wasn't Covid that ruined the lives around me it was the POLICY/MANDATES and infringment on basic human rights.- I am sure you can, you are clearly mad about it. A lot of people died, politics was often helpless, communication was bad for long stretches. I think you can be mad about the handling of COVID while still staying in reality.

There is a discussion to be had about the handling of COVID (which was not great all over the world), the value of real life interactions especially for children etc. But you have to base this discussion in facts, and those include a high death toll despite the measures we took. Sweden didn't do any lockdowns and kept schools open (afaik the whole time) and had a much higher mortality rate in their elderly at the time - this is a tradeoff you might be willing to do, but you have to be aware you are literally trading lifes for it.

One last remark to the comorbidity topic: COVID did kill very little healthy adults, I don't think that is disputed. I am lucky enough to still have 3 of my grandparents, and they all have different health complications for at least 20 years each by now (cancers, heart issues, diabetes, decreased lung function) despite relatively healthy lifestyles for decades - that is just part of aging. I would have been incredibly sad if they died to COVID and am happy I got another 3+ years with them.

Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Oct 24 2024 05:13pm)

Notice how you half way admit everything I say is true and then you argue with me over semantics and numbers?

Should I keep going?