d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Putin Already Lost The War In Ukraine
Prev1789101183Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Jun 14 2022 02:53pm
Quote (Norlander @ 14 Jun 2022 19:54)
They are stockpiling Russian gas in the 2nd largest facility in Europe, that's it.



Howitzers?


Yes. Btw European countries increased the purchases to create some stock.
Member
Posts: 4,469
Joined: Jun 5 2020
Gold: 0.69
Jun 15 2022 03:08am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Mar 9 2022 08:58pm)
https://atlas-report.com/reasons-why-putin-already-lost-the-war-in-ukraine/

- Russia won’t be able to occupy Ukraine ( same than below)
- Russia won’t be able to demilitarize Ukraine (So true, it's size of France + West Germany...)
- Russia won’t be able to weaken NATO (discussable, because a strong change in Russia can question NATO treaty)
- Russia won’t be able to divide the European Union (United it even more)
- Russia is getting its economy destroyed by sanctions (to be confirmed)


What output can we expect from the changes in EU-RUSSIA relation ? Is it a good thing for USA ?

Maybe Russia could pay rebuild and all various costs with its Oil, Natural gas, Minerals.

Imo the best would have to get ex-Russia to join EU, would take a decade or more btw...



what a joke lol

dream on
Member
Posts: 14,752
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 100,701.50
Jul 21 2022 01:53pm
March 9 2022: rUsSIa AlrEAdy loSt ThE wAR!!11!

Sauceman name-change because of his fail topics like this one here?

What we're seeing so far:
Strong Russian ruble
Russia making bank mainly because of high energy prices
We still can't touch them because of those 6K nukes so they'll just carry on, they're clearly in for the long haul.

Western "progressive" politics, so much win lol
Member
Posts: 53,342
Joined: Sep 2 2004
Gold: 57.00
Jul 21 2022 02:04pm
why did sauceman name change lmao
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Jul 21 2022 02:10pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jul 21 2022 12:53pm)
March 9 2022: rUsSIa AlrEAdy loSt ThE wAR!!11!

Sauceman name-change because of his fail topics like this one here?

What we're seeing so far:
Strong Russian ruble
Russia making bank mainly because of high energy prices
We still can't touch them because of those 6K nukes so they'll just carry on, they're clearly in for the long haul.

Western "progressive" politics, so much win lol


Hitler already lost the war before Stalingrad. The same principle applies here. Russia will not be able to complete it's strategic objectives.

Countries can be just fine after losing a war. Look at America!
Member
Posts: 14,752
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 100,701.50
Jul 21 2022 02:31pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 21 2022 10:10pm)
Hitler already lost the war before Stalingrad. The same principle applies here. Russia will not be able to complete it's strategic objectives.

Countries can be just fine after losing a war. Look at America!


If Russia stops today then it already has a land-bridge to Crimea and occupied most of Donbass. Explain to us how we're gonna get them out, or surrender and hand over their 6K nukes to us.

That's the main deal right there, those 6K nukes if you still didn't get it. Enlighten us pls
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Jul 21 2022 02:48pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jul 21 2022 01:31pm)
If Russia stops today then it already has a land-bridge to Crimea and occupied most of Donbass. Explain to us how we're gonna get them out, or surrender and hand over their 6K nukes to us.

That's the main deal right there, those 6K nukes if you still didn't get it. Enlighten us pls


"If Hitler stopped before Stalingrad, all of Ukraine, Poland, and Belarus would belong to Germany. Explain how the Soviets are going to get them out." Pretty silly, right?

Russia failed to replace the Ukrainian government. They are unable to cut Ukraine off from the Black Sea via a land bridge. They are in the process of losing their largest set of customers over the next few years. NATO expanded and Russia now has all of it's warm water ports surrounded by adversaries. In short, Russia has failed in almost all of their objectives. Then there is the cost: how many Russians have been killed so far? Will they be able to occupy the conquered regions indefinitely? Occupying regions takes A LOT of resources....just look at how much the war in Iraq cost. I don't think you can look at the situation that Russia is in and say "YUP! TOTALLY WORTH IT GUYS!"

Nukes aren't part of the equation because Russia isn't in a state of total war. Using nuclear weapons would be the most serious escalation and they would only use them if their country was going to be annihilated (which it isn't).
Member
Posts: 14,752
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 100,701.50
Jul 21 2022 03:57pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jul 21 2022 10:48pm)
"If Hitler stopped before Stalingrad, all of Ukraine, Poland, and Belarus would belong to Germany. Explain how the Soviets are going to get them out." Pretty silly, right?

Russia failed to replace the Ukrainian government. They are unable to cut Ukraine off from the Black Sea via a land bridge. They are in the process of losing their largest set of customers over the next few years. NATO expanded and Russia now has all of it's warm water ports surrounded by adversaries. In short, Russia has failed in almost all of their objectives. Then there is the cost: how many Russians have been killed so far? Will they be able to occupy the conquered regions indefinitely? Occupying regions takes A LOT of resources....just look at how much the war in Iraq cost. I don't think you can look at the situation that Russia is in and say "YUP! TOTALLY WORTH IT GUYS!"

Nukes aren't part of the equation because Russia isn't in a state of total war. Using nuclear weapons would be the most serious escalation and they would only use them if their country was going to be annihilated (which it isn't).


You're wrong on all fronts. First your bad comparison, Hitler thought he could take on the whole world and stopping before Stalingrad would still mean dealing with the USSR and all other enemies that were coming for him. Russia on the other hand can stop where they are now and they're fine. That's where nukes come into the equation how do you not get that is beyond me. They won't give up, won't surrender and there's nothing we can do about it simply because they possess those nukes.

Secondly Russia is looking for other markets to sell their natural gas (hint: China and India) and Russia's natural gas reserves have at least tripled in value. That's what we're looking at right now.

How many Russians killed? You mean how many people from Eastern Ukraine that they fully mobilized and threw into battle? If you don't know that Russia hasn't even mobilized I suggest you read up about it.
Member
Posts: 15,129
Joined: Apr 9 2007
Gold: 12,558.17
Jul 21 2022 04:26pm
Quote (Djunior @ 21 Jul 2022 23:57)
You're wrong on all fronts. First your bad comparison, Hitler thought he could take on the whole world and stopping before Stalingrad would still mean dealing with the USSR and all other enemies that were coming for him. Russia on the other hand can stop where they are now and they're fine. That's where nukes come into the equation how do you not get that is beyond me. They won't give up, won't surrender and there's nothing we can do about it simply because they possess those nukes.

Secondly Russia is looking for other markets to sell their natural gas (hint: China and India) and Russia's natural gas reserves have at least tripled in value. That's what we're looking at right now.

How many Russians killed? You mean how many people from Eastern Ukraine that they fully mobilized and threw into battle? If you don't know that Russia hasn't even mobilized I suggest you read up about it.


The nukes mean only that nobody can seriously occupy Russia.
Russians cant really use nukes in an offensive war, they need to keep some countries on their side, telling lies about Russia rights to occupy Europeans, and they simply cant do it if they use nukes.
Russia can try to sell their resources somewhere, but first of all China doesnt want to increase oil Russia imports, as this not strategically a good decision to rely too much on a single provider.
Also west pays biggest price. They can try to sell their oil in India or Africa, but it means a lot of discount compared to prices Europeans used to pay.
Russia hasnt really full mobilized, but I dont think they even can. Russians dont care about war as long as its just soldiers fight, hovewer if people would be forced to go to army, to fight offensive war, they would riot. and their mothers/families too.
You cant really compare defensive war during WW2, with current offensive war.
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Jul 21 2022 04:36pm
Quote (Djunior @ Jul 21 2022 02:57pm)
You're wrong on all fronts. First your bad comparison, Hitler thought he could take on the whole world and stopping before Stalingrad would still mean dealing with the USSR and all other enemies that were coming for him. Russia on the other hand can stop where they are now and they're fine. That's where nukes come into the equation how do you not get that is beyond me. They won't give up, won't surrender and there's nothing we can do about it simply because they possess those nukes.

Secondly Russia is looking for other markets to sell their natural gas (hint: China and India) and Russia's natural gas reserves have at least tripled in value. That's what we're looking at right now.

How many Russians killed? You mean how many people from Eastern Ukraine that they fully mobilized and threw into battle? If you don't know that Russia hasn't even mobilized I suggest you read up about it.


There's nothing to "get" about nukes. China has nukes, France has nukes, we have nukes, etc. No one is going to use them. Do you fear the fact that I own a gun when you're debating with me? Of course not! The same principle applies to Russia's nukes because they aren't going to be put in a situation where they feel the need to use them. How YOU don't get that is surprising.

Russia will eventually give up the war just like they did in Afghanistan. Some things just aren't worth the fight. Russia already "gave up" on several fronts of the war so I don't know why you think they have this unbreakable will to keep fighting.

No, I mean how many citizens of Russia have died in this war. The answer is A LOT. Way more than the US lost in 20 years fighting the War on Terror. Obviously Eastern Ukrainians are dying because they are fighting for their independence. They are in open rebellion right now.

From an economic standpoint, it's true that Russia will be forced to pivot to China for natural gas. However, that will be a painful transition and I'm not sure if China's demand can replace Europe's. India will be significantly harder, if not impossible, due to geography and the number of countries involved.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1789101183Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll