Quote (MrSK @ Oct 1 2021 03:49pm)

Incorrect, you can get a job just not as a federal worker. There are many jobs that will allow you to work with just a mask on if you do not want the vaccine. My point still stands there are many other mandates that by your logic/definition go against your ideology of Freedom yet are staples for US Citizens and the nation as a whole

Quote (SkillRincer @ Oct 1 2021 03:40pm)

it more seems like you do not understand the concept of freedom

Quote (MrSK @ Oct 1 2021 02:49pm)

Incorrect, you can get a job just not as a federal worker. There are many jobs that will allow you to work with just a mask on if you do not want the vaccine. My point still stands there are many other mandates that by your logic/definition go against your ideology of Freedom yet are staples for US Citizens and the nation as a whole

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Oct 1 2021 02:56pm)

Wrong. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want limits on freedom while still saying "freedom at all costs".

Your rights are an infringement on my freedom, and the same goes in reverse. You do not get to have safety and stability without giving up some freedom, and that includes limiting others from infringing on your "rights".

Quote (SkillRincer @ Oct 1 2021 02:00pm)

your freedom is being infringed upon in exchange for temporary security is my entire point as stated in OP

and what you are stating are just the current state of the mandates in the US, in AU on the other hand, people are being arrested for smoking w/o a mask on

Quote (iWorshiptheBlahaj @ Oct 1 2021 01:52pm)

you are messing with the bear, avatar theif. the facebook doctors will not be kind

Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 1 2021 01:23pm)

being vaccinated by my choice (freedom) gives me the ability to travel places i otherwise couldnt (freedom) including visiting elderly relatives (freedom) and eating at restaurants anywhere (freedom).

choosing not to be vaccinated (freedom) removes a large number of things you can legally do.

until someone rolls up to your house and forces you to take a shot in your arm you freedom hasn't been infringed upon, you have the freedom to get a vaccination or not. exercising that freedom in one way or another changes what OTHER freedoms you may be able to exercise.

that's how freedom works, it isn't a simple choice, ever. it's a door to a hallway of many more doors. the false binary of freedom and security is rarely that simple. perhaps on a topic like the Patriot Act it's fairly straight forward, because all americans were (unconstitutionally) opted into a system of illegal surveillance. Nothing about the modern vaccine mandates in the US has been unconstitutional or even on a state level illegal.

Quote (MrSK @ Oct 1 2021 03:07pm)

That's just plain wrong though. Current AND previous iterations of mandates all had this same idea. You have the freedom of CHOICE whether or not to get it but you do not have the freedom of CONSEQUENCES for choosing to endanger others with your actions

Quote (SkillRincer @ Oct 1 2021 02:18pm)

if the consequences of not getting the vaccine were the same as getting it, then i would say that is free choice but obviously they are not.

Quote (MrSK @ Oct 1 2021 03:28pm)

Do you not understand how consequences work? Different choices have different consequences in all aspects of life lmao
The founding fathers even made this distinction in things such as the first amendment. It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely but it does not mean you are exempt from the consequences of your speech

Quote (MrSK @ Oct 1 2021 04:28pm)

Do you not understand how consequences work? Different choices have different consequences in all aspects of life lmao
The founding fathers even made this distinction in things such as the first amendment. It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely but it does not mean you are exempt from the consequences of your speech