So both are shitty but Cuomo in the lead.

Whats up with the Cuomo sexual harassment stuff? Is it like Joe's personal space issues or was it actual assault?

Even a kiss on the lips wouldnt be assault. Just creepy as shit and typically fireable.

The coverup of the mass killings is far worse than anything else here.

If nothing wrong was done why cover it up?

Depending on the context, a kiss may or may not be sexual assault.

I was listening to some liberals describe how bad his accusations are, but the way they described it seemed like he just hadn't updated his 80's Italian mentality with the hugs and kisses and stuff on introduction.

So I'm kind of confused on what the big deal is? Like, that stuff is creepy but doesn't sound malicious or particularly harmful. More of a personal space issue that should have phased out on its own 10 or 20 years ago and now needs a series of HR meetings.

How much lives could have been saved if Trump has been "pro masks" & social distancing ?
Was Cuomo "pro masks" ? YES
Was Ted Crus "pro masks" ? NO

Reading some more today about this story it seems clear that Cuomo made a little mistake by sending nursing home early recovered patients BUT there's a note here:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/24/michael-caputo/hhs-official-blames-cuomo-nursing-home-covid-death/
Though some epidemiologists and nursing home advocates questioned the report’s methods and findings, public health experts agreed with the report’s conclusion — based on the timeline — that nursing home staffers and visitors, before they were banned, were likely the main drivers of COVID-19 infection and death in nursing homes.
It was a mistake because it's possible to argue this decision caused the death of a few eldery people. I think he did that to free up some capacity in hospitals anyway. I see no financial or influence reasons.

Conclusion is that Cruz is definitely the worse, by far lol.

Zero self awareness holy shit. Proof that the metoo movement is a fraud.

it seems to be a lot of smoke to cover for his numerous mess ups in 2020. guys a creep regardless who got slapped hard by his Kennedy ex wife so hes trying to be a Kennedy now

one of them was him asking a subordinate if she would date an older man. not workplace appropriate but uhh, sexual assault..guess thats the law in NY if its sticking

No, I am explaining that opposition to lockdowns is a much more complicated calculation than sending elderly to their deaths. Lockdowns collectively killed off millions of years in life expectancy, increased unemployment, alcohol consumption, stalled smoking declines, and have had serious consequences for mental health. If you can fairly calculate what those costs are, now and in the future, and compare them against covid-19 deaths, and then approximate and subtract out the impact that underlying causes had or didn't have, I'm more than happy to review it.

In Cuomo's case we can probably attribute at least a thousand deaths to his order. It is for Cuomo to explain, to the public's satisfaction, what alternatives he considered and why he rejected them. Instead he concealed the death counts and shifted the blamed to non-existent federal guidelines.

Stop using "everyone" as a stand-in for what you believe, it's weak.

I gotta disagree. The POTUS himself couldnt do too much in such a situation. The President's job basically involved only two tasks:

1. use the bully pulpit to lead the people, get them united behind a common goal/approach to the pandemic and to adopt the right behavior (wear marks, socially distance whenever feasible). Trump obviously failed horribly in this regard.
2. defer all the execution/the technical questions to the corresponding experts, provide them with funding and authority to carry out the necessary steps. Trump actually did this when it came to vaccine procurement, but he also undercut Fauci and the CDC.


Imagine Trump had held a couple of press conferences at the beginning of the pandemic where he walks on stage with his MAGA mask and then goes "wear masks and listen to Dr. Fauci, he's the man and has my full support. Dr. Fauci, take it away, I'm outta here", coupled with the vaccine procurement which he got right in RL anyway - he would have done something like 90-95% of the things he was able to do on the issue. Which is why it's so frustrating for someone like me who generally supported him: it was so so SOOOO fucking easy for him to get it right, but he just couldnt muster the miniscule amount of self-discipline and strategic thinking to do a "decent enough" job.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 5 2021 04:30pm

"Listen to the experts" has to be the most tired and misleading slogan of the past 10 years, if not longer. Experts are not a monolithic block, they actually do not agree on even the general strategy (elimination vs suppression) nor on some of the most consequential detail questions (e.g. how much open schools actually contribute to the spread). Just because there is consensus that masks should be worn (a consensus which btw did not exist yet at the onset of the pandemic), people should socially distance and the vulnerable should be protected does not mean that there is a singular, unified "expert opinion" that hands politicians a manual on how to get through the pandemic in optimal fashion.

Also, the "listen to the experts" slogan conveniently ignores that most experts can only tell politicians the "optimal" approach from the narrow perspective of their own field, while politicians have to keep the bigger picture and a host of complex tradeoffs in mind. If you ask epidemiologists about the optimal approach, they will tell you how to keep infection numbers as low as possible, because that's what "optimal" means in their field. What they cannot provide to decision-makers is the approach which minimizes the combined long-term total damage from covid and its effects plus the countermeasures and their side effects. In fact, this is such a complex question that no single expert in the world can give a comprehensive answer.


We can all agree that Trump's strategy was far from optimal, but opinions will already diverge a lot when it comes to exactly how bad it was. On a scale from 0 (Tanzania) to 100 (Taiwan), I think everyone can agree that Trump is below 60. But was his performance a 10, a 20 or perhaps a 40?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 5 2021 04:53pm