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Aug 30 2020 01:40pm
Quote (IceMage @ Aug 30 2020 03:24pm)
This is where we're battling facts vs narratives. You don't like it that Obama acknowledged the frustrations of black communities, or acknowledged some problems with policing, so you throw the blame on him. You pretend that a president sweeping it all under the rug would've worked better. I don't think that's true.

The norm for politicians is denying the experience of black communities. Pretending the bad doesn't exist. Telling black people that more white people get shot by police is not going to make them magically deny their own experiences.


In your rush to acknowledge "the experience of black communities" you've tacitly accepted a narrative that is in contravention to established fact.

That is "facts vs narratives". And yes, the president is expected to handle nuanced, complex situations with the complexity and nuance they by definition deserve.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 30 2020 03:40pm)
Oh yes, the prosecutor who went on a radio show after and said he didn't want the cop charged because he's from a cop family and works routinely with the police can definitely be trusted to make the decision on if he should really try to get charges, and it just so happens that the only case that went before the jury that didn't deserve charges was the one involving the police officer.

You guys just have a super broken bullshit radar lol


Prosecutors are also in need of serious reform, but this is all besides the point. The Obama JD investigated and found nothing. Your example of "abuse" is an innocent cop not getting charged. It's unfortunate that we haven't done enough to repair the damage caused to his life and reputation.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Aug 30 2020 01:43pm
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Aug 30 2020 01:47pm
Quote (IceMage @ 30 Aug 2020 21:24)
We can look back at recent American history and see examples of looting and rioting after a perceived injustice against the black community. Ferguson... Rodney King... the 60's. These things are going to happen when a historically oppressed community gets slighted. Today we have HD video of the injustice.

So, with that knowledge that these things are going to happen regardless of who is president, it's reasonable to conclude Trump doesn't help. For a myriad of reasons. Sure, local officials still get blame, particularly if they abandon all responsibility like CHAZ/CHOP. But the question on the table right now is which president makes it better? Or at least less bad? Not a hard question IMO.


You're oversimplifying a complicated issue, the true question lies earlier in the process than you're postulating here. It comes down to whether one believes that the riots (as opposed to the peaceful part of the protests) are a causal response to police violence and racist abuse, or if one believes that the looting and arson occur as soon as the public order has collapsed and the likelihood of facing prosecution by the police seems small enough.

If the violence and rioting are a direct, outrage-fueled response to police violence and intended by the rioters as a more drastic form of protest, then appeasing the protesters will see the rioting abate. In this case, Biden is unqestionably the better-suited president for the task.
However, if the violence and rioting are actually opportunity crimes rather than an expression of protest, then appeasing the rioters will only increase the carnage, and cracking down on the violence (not the peaceful protests!) is the only solution. In this case, Trump is the better choice and going with Biden/Demcorats runs the risk of seeing the situation get even worse.



You're postulating, without giving a specific reasoning, that the truth is scenario (I), from which Biden being the better choice trivially follows.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 30 2020 01:50pm
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Aug 30 2020 02:23pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 30 Aug 2020 21:47)
You're oversimplifying a complicated issue, the true question lies earlier in the process than you're postulating here. It comes down to whether one believes that the riots (as opposed to the peaceful part of the protests) are a causal response to police violence and racist abuse, or if one believes that the looting and arson occur as soon as the public order has collapsed and the likelihood of facing prosecution by the police seems small enough.

If the violence and rioting are a direct, outrage-fueled response to police violence and intended by the rioters as a more drastic form of protest, then appeasing the protesters will see the rioting abate. In this case, Biden is unqestionably the better-suited president for the task.
However, if the violence and rioting are actually opportunity crimes rather than an expression of protest, then appeasing the rioters will only increase the carnage, and cracking down on the violence (not the peaceful protests!) is the only solution. In this case, Trump is the better choice and going with Biden/Demcorats runs the risk of seeing the situation get even worse.



You're postulating, without giving a specific reasoning, that the truth is scenario (I), from which Biden being the better choice trivially follows.


Let's hope it's not a false dichotomy
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Aug 30 2020 02:33pm
Joe Biden issued an "all sides" statement instead of condemning Antifa:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/514347-biden-i-condemn-violence-in-portland-challenge-trump-to-do-the-same

He is still refusing to condemn Antifa.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Aug 30 2020 02:35pm
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Aug 30 2020 02:37pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 30 2020 04:33pm)
Joe Biden issued an "all sides" statement instead of condemning Antifa:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/514347-biden-i-condemn-violence-in-portland-challenge-trump-to-do-the-same

He is still refusing to condemn Antifa.



Lol at challenging trump to do the same. The dude has been on a twitter tear about the violence.
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Aug 30 2020 02:41pm
a penny for your thoughts on Joe's "All sides" rhetoric?
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Aug 30 2020 02:42pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 30 Aug 2020 16:33)
Joe Biden issued an "all sides" statement instead of condemning Antifa:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/514347-biden-i-condemn-violence-in-portland-challenge-trump-to-do-the-same

He is still refusing to condemn Antifa.


Quote (ofthevoid @ 30 Aug 2020 16:37)
Lol at challenging trump to do the same. The dude has been on a twitter tear about the violence.


biden can’t read. it’s more oblivion npc dialogue from his campaign handlers

he is more to blame for the violent rhetoric than any other candidate in 2020 in 2012 he harkened back to slavery by insinuating that mild-mannered romney of all people was “gonna have people back in chains”
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Aug 30 2020 02:43pm
Quote (excellence @ Aug 30 2020 03:42pm)
biden can’t read. it’s more oblivion npc dialogue from his campaign handlers

he is more to blame for the violent rhetoric than any other candidate in 2020 in 2012 he harkened back to slavery by insinuating that mild-mannered romney of all people was “gonna have people back in chains”


Biden silence equals violence
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Aug 30 2020 03:15pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 30 Aug 2020 22:33)
Joe Biden issued an "all sides" statement instead of condemning Antifa:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/514347-biden-i-condemn-violence-in-portland-challenge-trump-to-do-the-same

He is still refusing to condemn Antifa.


Meanwhile, antifa protesters march through Oakland, CA chanting "death to America" to the sound of glass shattering in the background:
https://streamable.com/jyeb7r

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Aug 30 2020 03:29pm
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