You do see mass starvation under capitalism though. And human slavery. Capitalism relies on oppression of others for the gain of a few. Selling and trading goods and services and earning some money is not capitalism.

Please point out mass starvation under capitalism. Curious to see where you go with that.

mass starvation under capitalism =/= mass starvation due to capitalism

tho.

not saying you're wrong, but curious which examples you have in the chamber.



inb4d chess'd me

This post was edited by thesnipa on Nov 21 2018 11:25am

Best countries so far are a mix of both Socialism AND Capitalism.

Capitalism causing massive starvation ? Yes;
- Spreading war (selling weapons & maintaining war in countries holding the resources)
- Promoting selfish values, regardless if Socialism is corrupted or not.

Capitalism is pushing for excessive consumption, pollution. Uncontrolled Capitalism is pure destruction, and we all know it.
Capitalism leads to fascism and is still actually evolving in the wrong way since decades now.

==> Corporate Pillage in Africa

democracy without some constitutional protections of property owners and members of social minorities would indeed lead to mob rule, to the "tyranny of the majority". this is not a desirable or promising path to go down.

the part with the advanced degrees: "education" in the sense of "one-track specialists" is very different from "education" in the sense of "formation of one's character in terms of the Enlightenment". and of course this wouldnt solve the problem that a big chunk of the population does not have the intellectual potential to acquire advanced degrees.

the strong oppressing and exploiting the weak is part of the human nature, part of the nature of almost all species. a good social system keeps these dark, primordial instincts in check for the better of society overall. but since the exercising entities of any social system necessarily are humans, there will always be the risk for exploitation, power grabs, and so on. the only option to prevent this are strong institutions and a strong system of checks and balances - and I'm not only talking about the political sphere here, this applies to the economy and science as well! upholding such a system in which strong institutions keep the selfish human nature in check requires a critical mass of the members of a society to support this current system - and this support for the system is only tenable if the critical mass of society is sufficiently well-off, is not struggling to survive on a daily basis.

thus, at the end of the day, it is my personal belief that wealth is the key ingredient to keep ANY social system stable and functioning, no matter if it's communist, capitalist, anarchist or libertarian. and despite all its flaws, downsides and pitfalls, capitalism is still the system which has historically proven to be best at creating wealth. and within the class of capitalist systems, the most successful ones tend to not be cutthroat variations of capitalism, but ones in which a well-calibrated welfare state is guaranteeing basic survival and a minimum level of social cohesion, while not being so generous that it hampers productivity or overextends the solidarity within society.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 21 2018 01:36pm

He just made that shit up and wont reply that. Im also curious to see an example. But we wont see one.

It's really sad to see how you make all these observations about how corrupt your country's politicians are, and then in the end you simply blame socialism/communism/marxism.

The number of people who die daily all over the world because of corrupt capitalists is exponentially higher than those who die because of corrupt socialists. Moreover, almost all first world countries with high living standards have this because of an economy that takes the best bits out of socialism and communism.

The problem, in Venezuela as well as so many other countries, is corruption in pseudo-democracy. Any ideology can be misused when you have the wrong people in power.

E-XAC-T-LY!!!!

and this one of the main reasons why democratic, free, capitalistic societies are inherently superior to socialist systems: in a democratic, free, market-based system, power is more evenly distributed, and corrupt politicians can more easily be removed from office. in such a system, it takes corruption to be a lot more widespread to bring down the system itself.

by contrast, in socialist systems, there is little to no democratic control of the leaders, there is no competition between individuals, products and ideas to keep things in check, and a disproportionate amount of power and control lies with the leadership of the ruling, socialist party. socialism only works in undemocratic, unfree systems - and in such a system, it only takes a handful of people (the leadership of the communist/socialist unity party) to be corrupted to drag the entire country down.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 25 2018 08:02am

Arguing about political justice in a banana country because picked up the wrong party card so your network is fucked.