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Jun 9 2016 12:21am
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Jun 8 2016 10:56pm)
Thank you for your contribution.



Definitely not watching, appears to be raw garbage for several reasons.


Because a tennis star suspension is being ran during a special report?
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Jun 9 2016 03:35am
Quote (AgentDark @ 8 Jun 2016 18:33)
That's funny, the exact same thought comes to my head when I read any post of yours.

You are literally the fine-tuned version of this


Glad to see that I'm already on your mind in your first hundred posts on this multi, whoever you are. :(
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Jun 10 2016 07:17am
Quote (thundercock @ 9 Jun 2016 00:51)
You said she wasn't running on big ideas and that there was nothing exciting about her. I said you suffered from confirmation bias which is why you are seemingly incapable of seeing why she's an exciting candidate.


I don't think America is very excited at the prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency, and I'm not suffering from some sort of confirmation bias when I say that. Nobody really likes her and Americans rate her as very untrustworthy on average. HRC's favorability ratings are historically awful and have steadily declined since she announced last April. Even her favorability among just Democrats is relatively poor.The only major party nominee that has had worse favorability ratings than her in modern American political history is Donald Trump.

So if she's exciting in the sense that's she not Donald Trump, sure, I suppose that's a reason to be excited.
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Jun 10 2016 07:56am
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jun 10 2016 05:17am)
I don't think America is very excited at the prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency, and I'm not suffering from some sort of confirmation bias when I say that. Nobody really likes her and Americans rate her as very untrustworthy on average. HRC's favorability ratings are historically awful and have steadily declined since she announced last April. Even her favorability among just Democrats is relatively poor.The only major party nominee that has had worse favorability ratings than her in modern American political history is Donald Trump.

So if she's exciting in the sense that's she not Donald Trump, sure, I suppose that's a reason to be excited.


Apparently there is a silent majority out there because she kicked Bernie's ass and she is going to annihilate Trump
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Jun 10 2016 08:18am
Quote (Beowulf @ 10 Jun 2016 08:56)
Apparently there is a silent majority out there because she kicked Bernie's ass and she is going to annihilate Trump


Liking a candidate and voting for a candidate are sometimes two separate things. Furthermore, the fact that more people voted for a candidate does not mean people are excited for that candidate.

Voters simply might think Hillary was the better option between her and Bernie. Certainly there are people that like Hillary or are excited for her, but there might also be a lot of voters who simply saw Bernie as a bad candidate.

The same goes for Bernie, he's garnered over 12 million votes and about ~43% of the vote vs Hillary, but how many of those votes were more of anti-Hillary votes vs people who loved Bernie? Sanders became the de-facto anti-establishment candidate and clear alternative to HRC, and a large portion of his success might just because he was in a 2 candidate field against someone a lot of people dislike. It's possible that a good portion of his success might not be attributable to himself but rather other various political factors and more importantly the person he was running against.

The same goes for Trump. Both Hillary and Trump are historically unfavorable candidates, but Trump is arguably the most unfavorable major party nominee in modern history. If Hillary annihilates Trump, are people excited for Hillary or do they just really dislike Trump? Based on HRC's awful favorability ratings, I'm more likely to believe the latter, although I'm not ruling out that both could be true for some segments of the Democratic establishment base.
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Jun 10 2016 08:38am
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jun 10 2016 06:18am)
Liking a candidate and voting for a candidate are sometimes two separate things. Furthermore, the fact that more people voted for a candidate does not mean people are excited for that candidate.

Voters simply might think Hillary was the better option between her and Bernie. Certainly there are people that like Hillary or are excited for her, but there might also be a lot of voters who simply saw Bernie as a bad candidate.

The same goes for Bernie, he's garnered over 12 million votes and about ~43% of the vote vs Hillary, but how many of those votes were more of anti-Hillary votes vs people who loved Bernie? Sanders became the de-facto anti-establishment candidate and clear alternative to HRC, and a large portion of his success might just because he was in a 2 candidate field against someone a lot of people dislike. It's possible that a good portion of his success might not be attributable to himself but rather other various political factors and more importantly the person he was running against.

The same goes for Trump. Both Hillary and Trump are historically unfavorable candidates, but Trump is arguably the most unfavorable major party nominee in modern history. If Hillary annihilates Trump, are people excited for Hillary or do they just really dislike Trump? Based on HRC's awful favorability ratings, I'm more likely to believe the latter, although I'm not ruling out that both could be true for some segments of the Democratic establishment base.


The best thing that's happened to Clinton this cycle is all the wackadoos showed at the same time to show America how bad candidates/surrogates/supporters/etc can actually be and it caused a lot of people to open up to her more and I think some are actually excited now.

Anyone that has been around as long as she has and has weathered as many (just and unjust) attacks as she has is going to take a huge hit in the favorabilities

Also the internet doesn't represent the population very well. Not being the internet darling of the cycle doesn't mean there isn't excitement out there among the people that support her it's just not represented in the form of memes and forum polls
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Jun 10 2016 08:49am
Quote (Beowulf @ 10 Jun 2016 09:38)
The best thing that's happened to Clinton this cycle is all the wackadoos showed at the same time to show America how bad candidates/surrogates/supporters/etc can actually be and it caused a lot of people to open up to her more and I think some are actually excited now.

Anyone that has been around as long as she has and has weathered as many (just and unjust) attacks as she has is going to take a huge hit in the favorabilities

Also the internet doesn't represent the population very well. Not being the internet darling of the cycle doesn't mean there isn't excitement out there among the people that support her it's just not represented in the form of memes and forum polls


I completely agree with almost all of this but I will say that HRC's unfavorabilities are not just 'par for the course' numbers for someone who has been in the dirty game of politics as long.

She's been wrapped up in two major scandals in the past couple of years, one of which is currently being investigated by the FBI, so it's not really surprising to see her favorability rating sitting at about -18.3 right now. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/favorable_unfavorable.html

That's the worst of any Democratic nominee in recorded history and the second worst of any major party nominee in history, only ahead of Donald Trump, who is sitting at a historically low value of -24.3. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html

This is truly the election of picking between the "lesser-evil" of two disliked candidates so when I hear others say that the American people are excited about any of these two candidates, I exercise a great deal of skepticism.
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Jun 10 2016 09:12am
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jun 10 2016 06:49am)
I completely agree with almost all of this but I will say that HRC's unfavorabilities are not just 'par for the course' numbers for someone who has been in the dirty game of politics as long.

She's been wrapped up in two major scandals in the past couple of years, one of which is currently being investigated by the FBI, so it's not really surprising to see her favorability rating sitting at about -18.3 right now. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/favorable_unfavorable.html

That's the worst of any Democratic nominee in recorded history and the second worst of any major party nominee in history, only ahead of Donald Trump, who is sitting at a historically low value of -24.3. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html

This is truly the election of picking between the "lesser-evil" of two disliked candidates so when I hear others say that the American people are excited about any of these two candidates, I exercise a great deal of skepticism.


Who has been as known and as criticized as her though?

Since the early 90s there has been a Republican career hit out on her and there has been no letting up since then.

I think a lot of the dislike for her comes from decades of vicious attacks and are embedded in people's minds like a multiple decade old game of telephone

Ask someone why they strongly oppose her and you'll likely hear "Benghazi" "Emails" "corrupt" "liar" all the way back to stuff from the 90s but when you ask details many won't be able to provide any. Most politicians would not have been able to survive the attacks she has for as long as she has. Smear campaigns work but somehow she keeps on trucking. That is the one thing I do respect about her.

I still don't fully understand the email/server thing myself. To me it looks like someone trying to be a bit secretive (about what I dunno) and perhaps maintain some sort of privacy during a time when it was known she was doing it and the laws/rules/whatever changed after she moved on? Not the smartest move for a person deemed untrustworthy by many but I'm still not seeing the dark misdeeds being sold and as of yet neither have the investigators as there hasn't been an indictment?
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Jun 10 2016 09:35am
Quote (Beowulf @ 10 Jun 2016 10:12)
Who has been as known and as criticized as her though?

Since the early 90s there has been a Republican career hit out on her and there has been no letting up since then.

I think a lot of the dislike for her comes from decades of vicious attacks and are embedded in people's minds like a multiple decade old game of telephone

Ask someone why they strongly oppose her and you'll likely hear "Benghazi" "Emails" "corrupt" "liar" all the way back to stuff from the 90s but when you ask details many won't be able to provide any. Most politicians would not have been able to survive the attacks she has for as long as she has. Smear campaigns work but somehow she keeps on trucking. That is the one thing I do respect about her.

I still don't fully understand the email/server thing myself. To me it looks like someone trying to be a bit secretive (about what I dunno) and perhaps maintain some sort of privacy during a time when it was known she was doing it and the laws/rules/whatever changed after she moved on? Not the smartest move for a person deemed untrustworthy by many but I'm still not seeing the dark misdeeds being sold and as of yet neither have the investigators as there hasn't been an indictment?


It's true that she has been in the spotlight for so long, but first, not everyone under the microscope will inevitably see poor favorability ratings, and second, even if they did, her ratings are historically low.

Your argument doesn't hold up in a lot of ways when you look at HRC's favorability ratings over time: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

You are making it seem like Hillary has always been criticized and that's why she is so disliked. Well, it's true she has been criticized, and perhaps unfairly in many cases, over the past few decades, but just look at her favorability ratings in 2008-2009 after she narrowly lost the nomination and in 2012 after serving as Secretary of State. She was sitting at +23, +26, +28 etc favorability ratings with the American public. The majority of people liked Hillary at that time.

So it's not like the Americans just dislike her for no reason or have always disliked her. Certainly there have been Right-wing (and now left-wing) criticisms of her that have undoubtedly hurt her, but a lot of her unfavorability with American people is simply her own doing with her handling of her recent controversies.

As far as the email/server thing, there is plenty of information out there to read about it. What the Office of Inspector General made blatantly and explicitly clear is that she clearly violated many important State Dept policies and arguably more importantly, that lied to the American people about what she did and didn't do. People don't like liars, and she's been wrapped up in so many controversies now, whether it be Benghazi or the email/server scandal, that it's no wonder people don't trust her or don't like her.

In my opinion she's unlikely to see an indictment from the FBI, but that doesn't mean she didn't do anything wrong or was honest to the American people. Opposite, in fact. The OIG report clearly showed that she did many things wrong and what she has said on the record is not consistent with what was published in the State Department audit.
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Jun 10 2016 09:50am
Quote (ThatAlex @ Jun 10 2016 07:35am)
It's true that she has been in the spotlight for so long, but first, not everyone under the microscope will inevitably see poor favorability ratings, and second, even if they did, her ratings are historically low.

Your argument doesn't hold up in a lot of ways when you look at HRC's favorability ratings over time: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

You are making it seem like Hillary has always been criticized and that's why she is so disliked. Well, it's true she has been criticized, and perhaps unfairly in many cases, over the past few decades, but just look at her favorability ratings in 2008-2009 after she narrowly lost the nomination and in 2012 after serving as Secretary of State. She was sitting at +23, +26, +28 etc favorability ratings with the American public. The majority of people liked Hillary at that time.

So it's not like the Americans just dislike her for no reason or have always disliked her. Certainly there have been Right-wing (and now left-wing) criticisms of her that have undoubtedly hurt her, but a lot of her unfavorability with American people is simply her own doing with her handling of her recent controversies.

As far as the email/server thing, there is plenty of information out there to read about it. What the Office of Inspector General made blatantly and explicitly clear is that she clearly violated many important State Dept policies and arguably more importantly, that lied to the American people about what she did and didn't do. People don't like liars, and she's been wrapped up in so many controversies now, whether it be Benghazi or the email/server scandal, that it's no wonder people don't trust her or don't like her.

In my opinion she's unlikely to see an indictment from the FBI, but that doesn't mean she didn't do anything wrong or was honest to the American people. Opposite, in fact. The OIG report clearly showed that she did many things wrong and what she has said on the record is not consistent with what was published in the State Department audit.


To me I don't trust her any less than I do most of the politicians on both sides. I look for who will help more and destroy less and that's about as far as it goes.

Now that she is the presumptive nominee how do we move forward? Most of can agree Trump is a disaster and will most likely be the worst President we've ever had.

Would a Warren Vp mend fences? I'd like to see more progress with health care, justice reform, and college cost which is where I hope Bernie and the dems eventually kiss and makeup so maybe there is progress over the next 8 years. Would be nice to see some republicans get their shit together and work for a brighter future as well
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