millions and millions of children died an early death before vaccines were found, would you have their deaths be meaningless? all those parents who clutched their dying children and cried out to their gods..please god anything just give me my child back..

don't you think that they'd want you to give up that tiny little freedom just to keep your own child and your neighbor's child alive..is it such a price to pay.

Nope. Give me liberty or give me death.

Vaccines are obviously a great thing, it would be great if we could distribute them to everyone in a trustworthy way. But convincing people to concede liberty in exchange for what seems like a valuable, rational benefit is exactly the tactic Hitler used to turn his party into a dictatorship. It's a slippery slope and I am against it.

This post was edited by kayeto on Feb 10 2015 07:34am

I find it hard to understand how there are developed countries where this isn't already compulsory...

I mean, this isn't about "muh freedom", it's about children's health

This post was edited by zarkadon on Feb 10 2015 07:54am

you're missing the point it doesn't seem like a valuable benefit it is a valuable lifesaving benefit

This is irrational to the nth. you aren't making the sacrifice for liberty, you are sacrificing your children's safety.

you are willing to take the chance with a two year old's life for the paranoid fear of loss of liberty? how very brave of you!

only during epidemics otherwise that'd be like conscription during peace time

Not sure why you think that contradicts with my viewpoint. I just said that exact same thing in the post you quoted.


I said I was ok with giving people the freedom to choose if they want to sacrifice their child's health. Therefore, the above red statement you made is correct, health will be sacrificed. But the blue statement is incorrect. Retention of liberty is the thing I gain by allowing people to choose.



Removing the choice by making vaccinations mandatory would be a sure loss of liberty. There is no paranoia involved in loss of that liberty. What was once a choice is no longer a choice, therefore liberty was lost.

The paranoia you refer to could only be applied to a belief about whether someone would take advantage of that loss of liberty by forcing bad things onto me. You seem to trust drug companies and the FDA, whereas I don't. So our opinions differ on that point.

This post was edited by kayeto on Feb 10 2015 08:32am

during epidemics is too late

why is this so hard to understand? the vaccines prevent the epidemics, how many dead children would it take to make you get vaccines for your kid? hundreds? thousands? why wouldn't the same fear of government tampering be present? the epidemic doesn't nullify the chance of the other.

I hate government interference I am opposed to seatbelt laws for adults, helmet laws, recreational drug laws.

but laws that protect children from ignorant parents are wonderful! I believe 100% in child safety seats and very hefty fines for violations and I think every child should be vaccinated if it takes laws to get it done so be it. Some kids need to be protected from the ignorance of their parents

and sadly we must make compliance laws to make sure that they are kept safe

Lotta statist motherfuckers up in this bitch. I see no real problems with mandating some vaccines for entry into public schools, but they've gone overboard. Chickenpox vaccine? For fuck's sake. I know people can get some irritating diseases later in life if they don't get chickenpox early in life, but is it such a major public health threat that they have to essentially force people to vaccinate kids for the fucking chickenpox? Please.

Then there's the ignorant motherfuckers saying vaccines are safe. For the most part, sure they are. But they also have some serious, life altering/ending effects too. The notion that you can strip people of the right to choose whether to accept or deny healthcare is sickening. Bunch of you statists should just /wrists and do the world a favor.



Or full-on 1984.



Deal with it by yourself. And so you know, the Amish get vaccinations too. Maybe not as much as you'd like to force onto them, but enough to be noteworthy.



The flu vaccine is actually more dangerous than doing nothing. People who get flu vaccines should just find the nearest lemming and chase it to wherever it leads.

http://sharylattkisson.com/govt-researchers-flu-shots-not-effective-in-elderly-after-all/

Typical appeal to emotion. Keeping vaccines voluntary does not mean vaccines go away completely.
Nor does it mean returning to high death tolls at the height of various diseases.
A large portion of society chooses to get vaccinated for various things. Many diseases were already being mostly stamped out before the onset of their vaccinations. There are numerous leaps we have taken in many areas outside of vaccinations that sharply reduced the consequences and likelihood of disease spreading.

Sorry for google translation + french source:




Experts who study the anti- vaccine movement know that parents are not ignorant on the matter, on the contrary. They read tons of search results and talk back and forth with friends.

With the exception of some religious communities, the most likely people to reject vaccines are educated people who are attracted to alternative medicine and believe they know what is best for their child.

A US study has produced similar results.

Monika Naus , however, says that vaccination rates were stable in the country and that the refusal rate has not increased.

http://www.985fm.ca/national/nouvelles/les-autorites-de-la-sante-incapables-de-convaincre-555684.html