...cutting directly to the chase we are by nature creatures that are goal oriented along the entire timeline of our lives . From the short term objectives like a daily supply of food and water to the medium term planning that goes into getting an education and starting a family and the long term goals of raising that family and providing for our later years we are taught correctly from a very young age that setting targets to achieve in the future is the best path toward a productive life . This is one of the most primary forces for a species that has adapted to using reason and intelligence for survival and advancement instead of mindless instinct that drives all other lesser species .

@ bold. So you are looking at the world as a whole are you? Lets try a simple test. Read this sentence only ONCE and count the number of F's you can find:

FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE-
SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF-
IC STUDY COMBINED WITH
THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS.

Tell me the first answer you came up with after reading it for the very first time.



Following that little test the rest of what you have said is wrong. From your little point of view of looking at everything as a whole you have lead everything correct from then on. However, the fact that you are looking at everything as a whole you are overlooking the tiny details missed and that is where you have gone wrong. Take a quick glance through everything and you will see what you are seeing right now. From there what you have said is correct but it is only half true. When you really look at the detail you will find a lot more than you bargained for. Overlooking all the little things is your downfall of the way you see things. You must not forget the little and most overlooked things when you look at something as a whole. You look at the news and you can say that it only ever delivers bad news. The majority of the news is that but every now and again there will be some good news that will pop up. How come nobody ever talks about the good news, only the bad news? It is because the good news has been overshadowed or overlooked by the bad news as a whole so there must be no good news at all.



When you speak in General you are saying all of mankind. All means 100% of mankind. All of mankind means 51350412/51350412 of people that you are referring to. That is essentially what you are saying. When you say mankind in General you could say MOST or MANY of mankind but you shouldn't use the word ALL because that is what you are saying but that isn't what you mean. You have given me your definition in the form of all of humanity when you mean most of humanity. So our views are completely different and we are both correct in our own little way. However when you miscommunicate your language to another individual that will take every word you say to the definition, perhaps you should consider rewording your phrases to make it sound like what you mean?

So you agree that you can't speak on behalf of every single person on this planet. You can't say that every single person that sets goals will all be narrow-minded or have 'tunnel vision' on towards their goal. You can't say that goals are illusions or bad because of that one single fact because it won't apply to every single person in the whole world. It only takes one person to prove you wrong. So the way you form these ideas is based off debating and ideas that 'popped' into your head. Also looking at the world as a whole (I assume that is what you mean when you say " scrutinising as many details and overall situations that take place to this day now. ") To sum it all up you are basically, after considering all of your experiences and your mind thought process you have concluded that having goals is a bad thing. Lets look at your thought process now.

You got this idea by having a debate, which is negative because both sides of debaters are 'teachers'. You should have a learning lesson where you are a 'student' listening to a 'teacher' as to why you should have goals. Do not bring in your mindset of having goals is bad into the fold because you are a 'student.' Also, this idea formed in your head (my intricate abstract ideas formed by my mind that acts as a giant). Did you ever wonder why or how that thought even got into your head in the first place? Did the Devil put that thought into your mind as a seed of doubt that blossomed into a tree that looks good on the outside but evil on the inside? When you form this idea you only have your own point of view and you need to wonder why it is so important that you dwell on this thought so much. From these two negative motions that came into play first, your mindset was from then on that having goals is bad. From that mindset you would only ever look at the bad things of having goals in the first place. You would OVERLOOK the good parts of having goals as if they didn't exist. You comprised your evidence of only bad things of having goals and based your assumption off that.

It is like having an advertisement about a product that only ever talks about the good things as to why you should have it but it overlooks all the bad things that would deter you from buying a product. Having a one-sided argument is very powerful indeed and from what you have only seen you have come up with the correct answer. However once you take into consideration ALL sides, including the good then and only then will you be sure that your final answer is true and accurate. What I am saying in a nutshell is look at the good sides of having a goal as well. Not just the bad sides.

Yeah your mindset is still of only having the bad sides of having goals. Your mindset is having goals makes you: Selfish, tunnel vision, proving of self worth, limited, etc. From this you are concluding that having goals puts you in SHACKLES so you aren't living your life to its fullest.

Now how about we turn your attention to the good sides of having goals. Take into the consideration the following of having goals: Holds you accountable, Helps you be the best you can be, Lets you live your best life, Drives you forward and it gives you laser focus. Here is my link http://personalexcellence.co/blog/6-important-reasons-why-you-should-set-goals/

“The trouble with not having a goal is that you can spend your life running up and down the field and never score.” – Bill Copeland



This is a quote from that link that you should take into consideration:

When you don’t have goals, you are floating around every day. Your energy is randomly dispersed in ad-hoc activities which you engage on whimsical basis. These are activities that play no role in your larger scope of life, but you are not aware of because you are just living life as it is.

You think that roaming around and doing whatever you want is a good thing. Perhaps you should take into consideration that, that is a bad thing. Just pointing it out.

So yeah from what you have gathered up, only bad things, it is easy to know that you will think only ill of having goals. That does include you think that having goals is just an illusion. I have already established that. Now you say that life isn't about pursuit. Life is subtle and always what you make of it. Isn't making something out of life a pursuit in itself? You are striving to make your life worthwhile in some way. That is pursuit. You just contradicted yourself there. You claim that you are able to appreciate the greatest and smallest of things but I established earlier that you are looking at the world as a whole. When you look at the world as a whole you are only looking at the big things and you are skipping over the fine detail. You aren't truly looking at the smallest of things at all. From what I've read you aren't looking over the greatest of things either. You are only looking at one side of the story and basing your assumption off that. The advertisement that you received was that goals are bad because of the following reasons. So therefore having goals is bad. Whilst you ignored the other side of why having goals are good.

How can you claim to know what somebody's intentions are? Am I able to decide what mood you are in now? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here but I am led to believe that you are talking about people whom don't know how to act in a certain situation, am I right? Ahhh, the life of a teenager. The transition from child to adult. Teenage years are not only the saddest years of your life but also the greatest years of your life. It is good and bad intertwined. They have no idea how to express their emotions and it is like a roller coaster ride. One second you are on top of the world and the next you are at the bottom and life is no longer worth living. That is the great thing about being a teenager, you don't appreciate how great it was until you've left that part of your life. I'm still wondering what you are truly trying to say. Are you saying that teenagers don't know how to express themselves?

The reason why mankind cannot accept the inevitability of emptiness is there is no inevitability. You should know that even the word hopeless has the word hope in it. Like I said before, the world is trying to fill a God shaped hole and there is only one way that it can be filled. That is God. How can you say that the world is void of true answers? How come you cannot say that perhaps we haven't found the world's true answers yet? (Whatever the hell you are talking about) The God shaped hole in our life must be filled, you can't say that the God shaped hole cannot be filled because that hole is our life. If we don't fill that God shaped hole we are essentially doing absolutely nothing with our lives. Not even D2JSP. Not even WOW or going outdoors. You want that God shaped hole to remain completely and utterly empty. Do you honestly think that, that is the true path to life live to its fullest potential? You have to fill that God shaped hole with something. Even though it can only be filled completely with God, people do try and fill it completely with other things in their life.

Wisdom.

GodlessDeity - Quit pretending like you have some higher brain function that allows you to "see" what others can't. Obviously each person has a different perception of the world around them. And on the topic of this post...have you not set out a goal of attempting to persuade us of what you post?

For the first time he and I are going at it though.

There's no end, but it's also not constant. It simply can't be. No one is enlightened all day.

But I don't see the distinction in this case between passion and goal, not when it comes to creation. The dedication and focus that it takes to sculpt something is indistinguishable from any other goal that requires single-minded focus and determination. The only difference I can see is that you like the end result, as opposed to others who have goals you find empty.

To be honest, I can not legitimately use that example of looking over small details, because about 5 years ago, I saw that example before and I actually knew exactly where the F's were [Like the tricky ''F'' in ''of''] and how many before I even started. I did get it right the first time, 5 years back though. So not only do I appreciate the frivolous things in life, but I also have a tremendous intuitive memory. The type where you just ''feel'' like you know the answer based off a very faint reminiscence. So you can discredit it.

I know that looking at the world broadly only waters down the details, but trust me, I do not allow myself to over look over these details. I've trained myself to diligently piece together the information that surrounds me; tangible or non-tangible. I do consider the smallest things. You are talking to someone who not only notices the top of a skyscraper, but where it all began from the very bottom. I notice both the highs and lows of reality. I do not pick and choose. I accept and I manage all types of information. I do understand what you mean by half-true, if you were under the impression that I did not appreciate or acknowledge the smallest of details, when I can detest that.

I know. Remember, I do not necessarily speak literally with the communication system mankind socially accepted. I only attempt to express the abstract thoughts that goes on in my mind the best I can. So I have difficulty with frames of time, because the thoughts inside my head have no sense of time. I do mix up my attempts to create a tangible thesis. I only end up mish-mashing it unintentionally, but that does not mean that all of my ideas should be unheeded. Every day I do capitalise on my errors. I know that I continue to say ''all'' when that is possibly the most assinine thing to say if on literal terms. It is like when a girl's boyfriend, fiance or husband says ''You are the most perfect girl in the world'', while other guys out there are saying to their other girlfriends ''You are the most perfect girl in the world''. They should say ''To me'' at the end. Alot of people are trying to express themselves, and that is when people take things too literally. That is why I explain to people to not take anything with more than a grain of salt, because just like when a child says ''I hate you'', they are only limited in what they can express, and only end up exaggerating their emotions and feelings, just as I unintentionally overtly exaggerated my message that revolves around the world as a whole. There ARE some things that EVERY single person do share though. I do apologise if my fair mish-mashing makes things a bit more miscontrued than needed.


The reason why I am able to target the concept of ''goals'' for the entirety of mankind, is because the goal is exactly just that, an illusion. If someone sets a ''goal'', they are creating an illusion. It is no different than harping on the concept of ''fear''. Goals are indeed shackles, and creates tunnel vision. Goals are not necessary for the broader spectrum of what life has to offer. Remember, do not forget how the world was shaped around capitalism and social conditioning. It is things like this that distorts people from understanding my ideas, because I see underneath the layers of what mankind built within our reality.

No. There is no dark forces involved. These ideas are no more than my ability to critically analyze, as well as assess concepts and principles in a fair-minded way. The reason why my ideas are not personal as you presume, is simply because these problems I question every day do not correlate with personal matters. These problems are unhinged by mankind, and they are seperate from bias. These problems are simply problems, and I can not help but situate myself to face these problems and find a solution to said problem. I can not stand seeing a problem being unheeded or covered up with excuses and the use of scapegoats. So essentially, these problems are objective, not subjective. I am able to scrutinise these problems, and I am able to piece together theories and concepts to reflect off the origin and its persistent existence.

I can not see the good sides of a goal, if those good sides can be achieved without a goal, and at a higher rate at that. If a ''goal'' is overall an illusion. The results from said ''goals'' are irrelevant to the ''goal'' itself. It is all mounted on one mere illusion of personal value.


What if there was no need to score? What is the point of ''scoring''? That is exactly what I am saying. Mankind is caught up in this personal value and setting ''goals'' for self-worth, for trials, for ''proving'' what does not need to be proven. You have to look at life without a game plan, to truly feel and understand the simplicity of its beautiful complex.


As far as I've seen. Those who have ''goals'' are missing out on an incredible amount of experiences, while those who float along life's arbitrary sequence manages to experience a plethora of elements. And many people who have reached their goal only found out that the over exaggerated feeling of triumph lasted very short. It is the epitome of desensitising. Of course, there are those who have managed to feel a long bout of triumph, but this triumph; this end result; it has nothing to do with setting the illusion to begin with.

It is not about doing whatever you want. I do not drink. I did not drive a 15 year old up the wall with my ''hormones''. I did not cheat and abuse the ignorance of others. I don't have a God. I am simply a life form that lives as the very thing that it is. I do not second-guess. I do not assume. I create concepts, I see puzzle pieces, and I piece it together. These pieces of the puzzle do fit in place. Mankind needs to stop creating their pieces, when the puzzle is right in front of our faces. This faceless puzzle went asunder after all of the distortion mankind lead on with their superstition and excuses. You seem to think that mankind would be vicious animals, when I am proof that a person can become their own guardian and savior without the help of friends, parents, or some God. By simply disciplining themselves, by simply listening to themselves. Not the crazy ''voices'' that make you feed your darkest of urges, but the silent urges that you have no reason or purpose to do, but you know it is the ''right'' thing to do. You know that it makes the most sense, regardless if you miss out on all of the ''fun'' and ''experimenting'' in life. It is WORTH it, for how silent and subtle it is.

Shaping life is not a pursuit. Our mind's intricacies, such as personalities, emotions, etc. All of this co-exists with this physical world we stand in. It is a remarkable system, that we are overtly complicating. Taking every step is not a goal or a [pursuit], if you have no direction or destination.


It isn't that I ignored it. It is because you are misunderstanding what would happen if mankind had no goal or destination. You also misunderstood that goals and the results from having a goal are two different eggs that happened to form a basket in their own seperate ways.

I can detest the latter half. My life was a calm and collected ocean the moment I chose to redirect my life for the most sensible, rather than what made me ''feel good''. What was ''convenient''. I can determine [not the same as determination...] what someone wants based off their trajectory and agendas as well as their persona, the words they use, how they use them, their reactions, and everything that can reflect off of their character. You can tell alot by a person's view of the world, because most of the time, their view stems from very personal reasons. The actions of mankind has its own native tongue that I can understand for the most part.

Trust me. This 'God' shaped hole is exactly why nothing is truly being understood. It is because goals and excuses have plugged up alot of holes without the holes being legitimately questioned without the need of an answer. It is because mankind always wants an answer, a goal, that makes this world unrealistic and filled with personal garble. Mankind needs to accept the world for what it simply is. You can not just pull out random conclusions to explain our unexplainable world. Both, Science, and Religion are only using speculations. And to be honest, Science is far more linear than religious theories. Yet, we all still have one thing in common. Not a single person is getting anywhere in this world. We are all running in circles inside of our heads, playing in the hands of our reality's illusions. There is no purpose. There is no goal. You created it, just like God was created. These are all illusions to protect your ignorance and your lack of knowledge of a mysterious planet we call Earth and we continue to label with our vague analytic system of loose logic.

This post was edited by GodlessDeity on Apr 24 2012 04:57pm

First of all, they are not lesser species. We can be advanced in our own way, but mind you, we are the ''greater'' species that is the only species dumb enough to fuck up our world and endanger the ecosystem with our greed and selfishness that we chose to have, not because nature made it that way. That is just an excuse.

We are not goal oriented. I have NEVER been goal oriented after my biggest enlightenment in my life. I was only goal oriented before it, and I was only obsessed with my personal value which meant NOTHING to other people or the world as a whole. So, I started standing and looking at the world as a whole. I am not selfish. I have no goals. I am a simple man who does not jump to any solid conclusion. I take everything with but a grain of salt. You forget, that the world has been shaped on capitalism and social conditioning. So your thesis is not supportable, and again, you aren't speaking of goal orientations. You are speaking of reacting accordingly to a situation. That is NOT a GOAL. That is using reason.

This post was edited by GodlessDeity on Apr 24 2012 05:03pm

Jesus fucking Christ.

Oh okay so you have seen that example before. I thought you may have seen it before. It was worth a shot. Anyway the point is that many people will look over the small detail and focus only on the big things. When you say things like looking at the world as a whole it sounded like you are taking a quick scan through and thus missing the small detail.

Same again. I just like to know where I am at and who I am dealing with is what I am trying to do. So now I know that you like to look at the whole spectrum but not overlook the small detail, which is what many people do. From this I can assume that you do not make hasty decisions? You like to think out everything and analyse every single bit of information that you get. So when you make an opinionated conclusion that goals are illusions, that wasn't a hasty decision. That was in fact a well thought out conclusion based on all the detail and information that was put in front of you.

Yeah like I say, you should be very careful about how you word things. Some people will take what you say to the core. So it may end up as you are both arguing over different things and you can both be right in the end. I do agree that we shouldn't merely dismiss your words entirely. I just like to know how you came to that conclusion as you have. I do it by going through your thought process and how you analyse every single situation and also how you word it. So I can come up with a story in my mind about how you came to the conclusion that you came to. Also, if I am confused as to what you are saying I may assume what you are trying to say but you can correct me if I am wrong. Have you ever heard of the Maturity Continuum? The 5th step is Seek first to understand and then to be understood. So what I am essentially doing is wanting to know everything about you and how you came up to your conclusion. After that I can draw my points based off that. The problem sometimes is that there may be miscommunication and how you are communicating your language to another individual.

So you are saying that goals are illusions. I get that. They are shackles and it creates tunnel vision. Now you see tunnel vision as a bad thing. What happens when you see that light at the end of the road and you ignore everything around you that is trying to pull you away from the light? If you have ever ran in Track & Field the coaches say to pick a point far up ahead and focus only on that. I have seen people get distracted by the crowd and they look at the crowd and thus lose their focus. The result is that they fall over and lose the race. Do you know the story of when Jesus walked on water to the boat to the disciples? Peter said that if he really was Jesus, he would let him go out onto the water. Jesus said 'come.' Peter then left the boat and was walking on water. It wasn't until he was focusing on the wind, waves and rain that lost sight and focused on everything that was distracting him from the light at the end of the tunnel. He then began to sink. The point is that tunnel vision may cause you to focus on one point but all around the tunnel vision are distractions, causing you to go off track and fall into the dirt. I am saying that you see tunnel vision as a bad thing, but tunnel vision can also be a good thing.

Yeah the world has created a standard of living and fitting in the way it sees. The world sees having all the latest gadgets and having the biggest bank account is the key to happiness. Of course that is just not true. That is why I am not really of the world myself. There are many reasons why I follow the Christian way of life. I see things that the world does not. It is very hard to explain to the world what you are talking about because the world is so used to its ways that it cannot just change.

Everyone does have the ability to critically analyse and assess concepts and principles in a fair-minded way. It does take a lot of hard work though. Okay so you claim to be able to remain emotionally out of the equation. Very few people can do that. It is like trying to separate parenting and coaching from your child. Not an easy thing to do by any means. I'm just wondering if this is the case of 'leaving no stone unturned?' As in nobody has ever really ever tackled the fact that having goals can be a 'problem' and you are the first to try? "I can not stand seeing a problem being unheeded or covered up with excuses and the use of scapegoats." Yeah I'm still wondering whether it is the case of first times for everything. People just naturally try to find their place in life and set goals to achieve it. Yet you come and look at the goal spectrum and you can see how that is a bad thing. You will have to clear that up for me if you may?



Why can't you see the good sides of a goal? Yet why do you then go on to talk about how these 'good sides,'which you can't see, can be achieved without a goal? I'm getting really confused here. I'm led to believe that you just contradicted yourself but I'll let you explain your side.

So what you are saying is that those who have achieved their goals do get that feeling of satisfaction but it didn't last a long as they originally thought as promised at the beginning? I can understand where you are coming from actually. It is essentially the same as filling that God shaped hole with money, success, popularity, love etc. I guess it all comes down to was the long trek journey worth the reward in the end? If you could start all over again and do it all over again would you? What did I learn from this journey that I could use in my later experiences in life? Do I feel wiser and more humbled now? Goals aren't just goals for the sake of goals, they are also learning experiences.



I'll use the example of Soccer here. The aim of the game is to score more goals than your opponents. Now when you score a goal you find out what works. Like a great pass or was it the opposition slipping up? What worked and what didn't? How will we go about getting that goal? We practise corner kicks, throw ins, passing to other players. All this for the sake of scoring that goal. Now lets take the goal scoring part out of the game. What is the point of doing all of that training if we aren't ever going to need it or use it for anything? We would be like sheep without a Shepard. No direction and no guidance. It would not be the case of tunnel vision, it would be the case of pitch blackness because there is no shining light wherever you look.



While you may be half true there, you forget to realize the fact that while they are missing out on an incredible amount of experiences, they are already participating in an incredible amount of experience by going for that goal. While those who float along life's arbitrary sequence may manage to experience a plethora of elements but they won't appreciate it as much as those who are going for that goal. While many people who have reached their end goal may only have a short termed feeling of triumph, at the end of the day they feel wiser and more humbled. Was it worth it? What did they learn during the journey? Would they do it all again? etc. Those who never manage to even make a goal won't ever ask themselves that question. Thus they won't learn anything about themselves either.

You are wrong when you say you don't have a God. Everyone has a god. They are called idols. You can worship money, career, success, love, popularity, wisdom etc. You can make something a god by making it an idol. In your case it sounds like you are seeking wisdom and knowledge as yours. The problem is that you are putting those things above God almighty himself. That is when the problem arises. Now when you don't believe in God what you are really saying is that "I am the highest authority in my life." There is no higher authority than myself. Christians know that is not true. We do our best to give the glory back to God, the one who created all of those things that you enjoy. We may appreciate the creation but we shouldn't worship the creation. The problem is that when people put themselves as their highest authority i.e. not believing in God, they think that they can save themselves. They are their own saviour. Tell me what exactly you are saving yourself from if you don't believe in life after death in Heaven or Hell? You don't believe in judgement of God almighty, the one who created the Universe and the one who must punish sin.

Um, you do know that having a goal is having direction and destination in the first place right? I am at point A right now and I want to get to point B. Now I need to go this way to get to point B. If there is no point B then you are just wandering about aimlessly and for no good reason. While you may admire the view and get more views of more routes, you won't really appreciate it as much because there is no...purpose to all this is there? You aren't there to study or admire anything. You are doing just that, wandering around aimlessly for no good reason. There is no journey in your life, thus no goal and no end point.

A Shepard wants his sheep back in the pen. That is his goal. Otherwise the sheep will wander around aimlessly and perhaps a fox will come and eat one of them. How will the Shepard go about preventing that from happening? By rounding up the sheep and pointing them towards their destination. Now there is no pen for the sheep to gather about. What will be protecting them from the fox, one of the distractions that would cause them to fall off their track? Or better yet think of it like this. A train on the rail road tracks is a one way path. What happens when the tracks suddenly disappear and the train goes off the tracks? The train crashes because it lost its path. The same thing happens to everyone else who loses the light at the end of the tunnel. They will fall off the tracks and will need to somehow get back on track.

So you redirected your path to another path. Big deal, everyone is faced with pathway decisions every day. People can change their ways of life as well. So you basically change your path way to the path of learning other people's emotions and predicting their next moves and reactions? You have found what you love and enjoy in life. So how will you prepare and going about getting your end goal to becoming really good at that? My point is that, that path you chose wasn't that unique. It is just another path way that led you to another passion.

So... it is not good for mankind to question things and find out answers we haven't got the answers to yet? Like cures for diseases or Astronomy science with the stars and Galaxies? Studying something is a gift that has been given to us from God. Imagine a world with no medicine because we all just accept disease for what it is. Imagine the laziness that would follow through. The deadly sin of Sloth would become the avatar of this world. You are right in saying we cannot pull out random conclusions so the questions left unanswered Science has theories and tests those theories. They can make that unanswered question become answered through tests. That is how it works right?

Hah! You said not a single person is getting anywhere in this world. Did I not say earlier that you cannot use the argument of every single person in this whole damn world as a global example of something because it can very easily get shot down? What do you call a baby who grows up into an adult and learns everything in-between? Do you not call that progress? Do you not call breakthroughs progresses? Are you now saying that there is no such thing as progress so we should delete that word from the dictionary? The thing is, when you don't believe in God you don't have a purpose and you don't have a goal. You don't have a hope. It is only by putting all of your hope and faith in Jesus alone will you find your purpose. God always was there. He is before time and space itself. One you put your faith in him all will be revealed in due time.



Edit: Hah! You are impressed by that are you?

This post was edited by CPK001 on Apr 25 2012 11:07pm