Quote (tagged4nothing @ May 21 2010 05:23pm)

strange isn't it, I spend my time saying I am open to every idea, opinion, etc., but the one thing that keeps me mostly from believing we came from mush in a swamp... Is the fact that our ancestors were not originally human.
Quite ignorant on my part since it's only cause I don't want to believe it. oh well. What makes me not believe in creationism? Well I can't quite say I don't believe in it, I only can say I find it hard to believe a book written by men, put together by men, changed by men, and even thoughts of changing and adding books come from current men. Jesus was a man introduced to us by other men. I just can't understand how "God" can play such a huge role in every ones life (according to the men who wrote to the books), but is nowhere to be seen today. An all knowing being should understand that men are not meant to blindly follow something without proof. This is not faith, this is ignorance and an easy way to pretend your not depressed anymore cause you found something so great.
I wish I could be a hero and change the world for the better, but lets face it.. I'm a plumber that is going to start trucking soon. I am not important. I can hope all I want, but I will make no major effect to this globe. I will experience it getting worse and worse until I die. The thought that I am so minute in this world, that I have no real purpose other than to survive is sometimes unbearable. Of course it would be easy for any one to have a near death experience or huge guilt trip and disappointment in ones self, to say fuck it I believe in "God". Now there is nothing to worry about cause "God" will provide. Minus the fact your sitting in prison, living on welfare, can't walk/speak/hear/see/etc. For people not raised and instructed from early age there is a god, it is the realization that we are useless in this life except to survive and make sure our off-spring can survive.(Also the only reason we NEED our off-spring to survive is so we don't feel guilt not wearing a rubber and spawning more people into this fucked up existence.) Evidence is lacking on both sides to prove anything 100% to what I have been reading so far (thank you to some from this post who pointed me around a little, I'm still reading up on everything). It's kind of funny though that so many of us won't take ourselves out of these hardships many of us are over-burdened with, is because the bible tells us we will perish eternity for leaving this world on our own terms (not many will understand fully what I mean by that). I wonder why we look to the past to predict our future. Men have always been known to make things better, then fill their mind with greed and power and make things worse until we start over. Maybe I am doing this wrong thinking as I type. Perhaps I should say fuck you idealists. All I want in life is to be happy. Simply happy.

Quote (sastachi @ May 21 2010 06:03pm)

Happiness is all a living thing can achieve. Many don't. : / gl with life

Quote (tagged4nothing @ May 21 2010 09:23pm)

strange isn't it, I spend my time saying I am open to every idea, opinion, etc., but the one thing that keeps me mostly from believing we came from mush in a swamp... Is the fact that our ancestors were not originally human.
Quite ignorant on my part since it's only cause I don't want to believe it.  oh well.  What makes me not believe in creationism?  Well I can't quite say I don't believe in it,  I only can say I find it hard to believe a book written by men, put together by men, changed by men, and even thoughts of changing and adding books come from current men.  Jesus was a man introduced to us by other men.  I just can't understand how "God" can play such a huge role in every ones life (according to the men who wrote to the books), but is nowhere to be seen today.  An all knowing being should understand that men are not meant to blindly follow something without proof.  This is not faith, this is ignorance and an easy way to pretend your not depressed anymore cause you found something so great.
I wish I could be a hero and change the world for the better, but lets face it.. I'm a plumber that is going to start trucking soon.  I am not important.  I can hope all I want, but I will make no major effect to this globe.  I will experience it getting worse and worse until I die.  The thought that I am so minute in this world, that I have no real purpose other than to survive is sometimes unbearable.  Of course it would be easy for any one to have a near death experience or huge guilt trip and disappointment in ones self, to say fuck it I believe in "God".  Now there is nothing to worry about cause "God" will provide.  Minus the fact your sitting in prison, living on welfare, can't walk/speak/hear/see/etc.  For people not raised and instructed from early age there is a god, it is the realization that we are useless in this life except to survive and make sure our off-spring can survive.(Also the only reason we NEED our off-spring to survive is so we don't feel guilt not wearing a rubber and spawning more people into this fucked up existence.)  Evidence is lacking on both sides to prove anything 100% to what I have been reading so far (thank you to some from this post who pointed me around a little, I'm still reading up on everything).  It's kind of funny though that so many of us won't take ourselves out of these hardships many of us are over-burdened with, is because the bible tells us we will perish eternity for leaving this world on our own terms (not many will understand fully what I mean by that).  I wonder why we look to the past to predict our future.  Men have always been known to make things better, then fill their mind with greed and power and make things worse until we start over.  Maybe I am doing this wrong thinking as I type.  Perhaps I should say fuck you idealists.  All I want in life is to be happy. Simply happy.

Quote (BDSM @ May 21 2010 07:07pm)

Evidence really isn't lacking on the side of evolution. There may be some transition fossils missing from the fossil record, but that doesn't say much at all. It's pretty much equivalent to hearing about a murder case where the camera saw a guy walk into a store with a gun, but not seeing what takes place while he's in the store, and then seeing him walk out with blood all over his clothes. It's pretty obvious he did it; in the same way, there's a consensus within the scientific community that natural selection and evolution is how we came to be.

I would say that there's nothing wrong with us evolving from "lower" organisms. After all, that doesn't change the fact that you or I are intelligent creatures. You shouldn't get caught up on what the rest of the world thinks of you, but rather only what you can, want, and should do. After all, your world consists only of what you perceive, and for all intents and purposes it's you that's important and the rest of the world that is not; because when you die the world, as you perceive it, ceases to exist. Most things are relative, and "importance" is one of those things.

Quote (tagged4nothing @ May 21 2010 11:16pm)

i see your point, but I would have to disagree.
A point was brought up earlier in this thread about facts are as we perceive it.  Our tools were made by us with the knowledge we have.  It is possible that alot of it is either just plain wrong cause time over such a long period can throw the scales to make us think one thing and not what actually happened.  we were not their is basically what I'm saying.  and your point on that man walking in to the store... there is still a possibility he didn't do it.  I could come up with situations how not but that's not my point here.
proof is proof, assumptions and proof based off of differing numbers are still possibly wrong, no matter how right they seem.

Quote (BDSM @ May 21 2010 07:22pm)

But scientists have accounted for virtually all of those changes. Changes in air temperature, changes in oxygen levels, etc. have all been accounted for in the latest carbon dating.

And of course there's a possibility, but there's also a possibility that nothing in this world that you see is real. We could all live in a matrix like world where only our minds exist in reality. But you shouldn't take radical assumptions like that as the status quo; you should always take the side with more evidence, and that is unquestionably evolution.

You can't prove anything exists, except the mechanism which does your thinking by the instantiation principle. That doesn't mean you should assume that nothing exists. In the same way, you shouldn't assume evolution is not how we came to be.

Quote (tagged4nothing @ May 21 2010 11:44pm)

another point taken, another one disagreed with tho. you can't just assume the side with more substantial evidence is correct and then tell people this is what it is without being able to prove it yourself. red is red, but only when light hits it, and even then it is not always red. I believe personally it is more correct to question everything until something is proven 100%. you are right though, even if it is proven 100% everything could be wrong because we all perceived the wrong direction/thing. I am not looking to this thread to believe in the full degree of evolution or creationism. rather to debate everything you tell me until you change my mind or I change yours. Without people to question things such as these, there will never be progress and there would never be a desire to even try for progress. I believe there are many factors not even included in our studies. here is one I'm hoping you will understand when I type it.. When an object goes so fast, it actually experiences more time than it would not moving at all. with this thought, the earth travels at xx speed around the sun, but we do not know if our galaxy is actually moving 1 billion light years a minute(ya big number thats not the point here) in any direction. We may be able to state it moves at this speed according to other galaxies around us. but really, what we perceive as the universe, could be as small as mosquito in stature standing next to mount everest. Another theory, the big bang theory, states our universe is expanding but will one day start to compact back to it's previous form due to every things gravitational pull. we could be moving away from the point it happened at such a speed that our concept of time is actually way off than it would be if we were just rotating around the sun. Also in saying this, the speed could have dropped drastically as time moved on, changing time as we perceive it as time goes on.(I'm am not stating I beliieve in the big bang theory, although it does make quite a bit of sense if you actually read into it, still tho, not proven so not my belief).

Quote (tagged4nothing @ May 21 2010 11:44pm)

another point taken, another one disagreed with tho.  you can't just assume the side with more substantial evidence is correct and then tell people this is what it is without being able to prove it yourself.  red is red, but only when light hits it, and even then it is not always red.  I believe personally it is more correct to question everything until something is proven 100%.  you are right though, even if it is proven 100% everything could be wrong because we all perceived the wrong direction/thing.  I am not looking to this thread to believe in the full degree of evolution or creationism.  rather to debate everything you tell me until you change my mind or I change yours.  Without people to question things such as these, there will never be progress and there would never be a desire to even try for progress.  I believe there are many factors not even included in our studies.  here is one I'm hoping you will understand when I type it..  When an object goes so fast, it actually experiences more time than it would not moving at all.  with this thought, the earth travels at xx speed around the sun, but we do not know if our galaxy is actually moving 1 billion light years a minute(ya big number thats not the point here) in any direction.  We may be able to state it moves at this speed according to other galaxies around us.  but really, what we perceive as the universe, could be as small as mosquito in stature standing next to mount everest.  Another theory, the big bang theory, states our universe is expanding but will one day start to compact back to it's previous form due to every things gravitational pull.  we could be moving away from the point it happened at such a speed that our concept of time is actually way off than it would be if we were just rotating around the sun.  Also in saying this, the speed could have dropped drastically as time moved on, changing time as we perceive it as time goes on.(I'm am not stating I beliieve in the big bang theory, although it does make quite a bit of sense if you actually read into it, still tho, not proven so not my belief).

Quote (Handcuffs @ May 21 2010 07:46pm)

Expecting things to be proven "100%" is an impossibility and acting on such a notion is impractical and contradictory to how we actually function in the real world.

This is where my issue with perception and objectivity stems from.

Quote (BDSM @ May 21 2010 07:52pm)

I'll just respond to the bolded since I believe it's the heart of your disagreement.

In short, yes you can, and yes you should. If you didn't assume the side with more substantial evidence was correct, you theoretically couldn't believe virtually anything. Your beliefs may change with the evidence, but that's how it should be. You wouldn't, for example, say "I can't say for certain that this pelican has wings just because I can see and touch them, because it could be that my senses have deceived me and I could be imagining things". It just wouldn't make sense; it's not practical.