In terms of the current state of Libya, both Gaddafi & NATO are partially responsible - Gaddafi was a tyrant who failed to respond to his people, & NATO was a powerful external enemy which decided to intervene on the side of the anti-regime Libyans to crush Gaddafi. But since NATO doesn't really care about the Libyan people, no help was given to rebuilding the country. And really, would western taxpayers want billions of dollars spent on nation building (again) in a state where the West has no relation to, ethnically culturally or religiously?

It's really up to the Libyan people themselves to rebuild.

The Libyan people were doing much better under the "tyrant" than they are now. If the West didn't intervene there would not have been a "revolution" and the Libyan people would not need to rebuild. How about instead of rebuilding countries that are ruined because of us either directly or indirectly we just...wait for it...stop fucking with other countries


Wild concept i know. Next time there is a really mean and scary man leading some shithole country that couldn't even reach the US much less invade it, how about we just...ignore it? Libya was much better off than every other country around it despite being led by "tyrant" but even if it wasn't, who the fuck cares? It isn't your country lol

ITT: Gaddafi was a bad guy because his regime approved repairs but they were slowed down by bureaucratic red tape and logistics for a few years, but America are the good guys because we bombed the shit out of them and ended their government and all hope of maintaining infrastructure.





The Libyan people had a government. They had a country that was being built up. They had basic social services, especially water infrastructure.
Western taxpayers spend how much on un-building nations each year in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and actively now in Ukraine?


The insanity is that people could still believe these interventions justified even decades after they failed miserably and the results were laid bare. The stupidity is that people could still support the next half baked intervention with all the same warning signs.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Sep 16 2023 02:12pm

No man its like the American revolution, where in response to a series of intolerable acts by the king and his deafness to the voice of justice and consanguinity, the French intervened in the colonies and had their navy draw up on boston, new york city and philadelphia and bombard them into ruins. Then the marquis thumbed his nose at us and said we should really try this revolution thing, before sailing back to his mistresses. Its the American mantle of responsibility that we must spread freedom and democracy to every corner of the world by destroying their basic infrastructure and leaving warlords in charge of the rubble.

Have you bothered to read anything? Or is your flame filled spam just autopilot?
They knew about the dams problems in 1998; Is 13 years not ample time?

Just read the information, you'll save yourself the embarrassment.



I would agree.



Gaddafis government knew about the dam problems in 98... Guess he spent the money on Bedouin tents and on torturing dissidents.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Sep 16 2023 02:20pm

Welp.....looks like the 5BN Euro that he wanted from EU per year to keep those people out seems to be pennies now , considering what is happening.

He set aside a large chunk of budget and had contractors already hired and working to repair it.
Do you have any idea how dam/levee maintenance and risk assessment works? As it happens, I've got a particular background in it. Gonna trouble you to learn that the USACE knows about deficiencies and risks and especially dangerous floodplain settlements like Derna all over America? And the corps doesn't just instantly magically rebuild every dam each year, they do projections based on hundred year and thousand year floods to figure out odds of failure, expected damages from failure and costs to repair, and multiply them out to find the most efficient use of resources each year to spend on repairs. The Derna dam didn't fail in 1998, it didn't fail in 2010, it failed in 2023, over a decade after Qadaffi's civil engineers had already begun repairing it only to find their work schedule interrupted by a hot shipment of freedom and democracy from NATO

Lol nice

I'm surprised by how many right wing people are still on board with this sort of stuff tbh. I tend to align with a lot of right wing people over the last 10 years or so because they have become much more anti establishment than the left but when I see them talk about foreign policy it is liked being transported back in time to the early 2000s.

It is ample time, and within that ample time, plans were made to repair the problems as well as resources set aside to pay the people fixing it

What happened then?

Bro do you need a flow chart or something? It is very very simple

This post was edited by DizzyBusiness on Sep 16 2023 02:39pm

It was always bipartisan. Left and right alike had neoliberals and neoconservatives in charge, warmongering interventionalists who shut out the libertarians and tankies alike. The real joke now is the neoliberals parading around the corpse of progressivism and puppeteering it to spew their bile. I've always said the Wellstone foundation is a great example of that.

But you sure get to see how deep the ideological convictions run for folks like Stephen Colbert who earned their chops railing against baby bush's warmongering only to turn around and be more reckless and bloodthirsty now than that turd.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Sep 16 2023 02:55pm