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Dec 3 2022 03:05pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Dec 3 2022 03:52pm)
It depends on whether they're performing as state actors. It is unconstitutional, for instance, for the government to pressure twitter to censor Alex Berenson.


Quote (IceMage @ Dec 3 2022 03:57pm)
That's a different argument, obviously.


Also, are you referring to something that happened or a hypothetical? Why don't you explain it more and we can go from there.
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Dec 3 2022 04:21pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 3 2022 04:05pm)
Also, are you referring to something that happened or a hypothetical? Why don't you explain it more and we can go from there.


Alex Bernson was banned by Twitter. He sued them for violation of their user agreement, court ordered discovery uncovered a direct link between the Biden administration and Twitter.
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Dec 3 2022 04:28pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Dec 3 2022 05:21pm)
Alex Bernson was banned by Twitter. He sued them for violation of their user agreement, court ordered discovery uncovered a direct link between the Biden administration and Twitter.


Details? At least post an article describing what happened. You're making accusations about Twitter being a government actor without backing it up with anything.
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Dec 3 2022 04:31pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Dec 3 2022 02:21pm)
Alex Bernson was banned by Twitter. He sued them for violation of their user agreement, court ordered discovery uncovered a direct link between the Biden administration and Twitter.


source: Alex Berenson's substack. cool cool cool.
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Dec 3 2022 04:34pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 3 2022 05:28pm)
Details? At least post an article describing what happened. You're making accusations about Twitter being a government actor without backing it up with anything.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/twitter-becomes-a-tool-of-government-censors-alex-berenson-twitter-facebook-ban-covid-misinformation-first-amendment-psaki-murthy-section-230-antitrust-11660732095
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Dec 3 2022 04:37pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 3 Dec 2022 22:34)


It's an opinion article. Would be not surprised of the existence a direct communication channel for emergency cases, it is required for obvious reasons.
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Dec 3 2022 04:43pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Dec 3 2022 05:34pm)


I don't subscribe to the WSJ, but it is a good outlet. I'll base my replies off the Atlantic article:

Quote
Berenson's victory was not based on his argument that his ban was a violation of the First Amendment; the judge rejected this claim.


Well, there you go.

Quote
Berenson's victory was not based on his argument that his ban was a violation of the First Amendment; the judge rejected this claim. Instead, his success seems to have hinged on promises made to him by a high-level Twitter employee. “The points you’re raising should not be an issue at all,” the company’s then–vice president of global communications assured Berenson at one point, according to the complaint. The lawsuit says the same executive later told Berenson that his name had “never come up in the discussions” about Twitter’s COVID-19 misinformation policies. Goldman believes that the court’s decision to allow a claim based on that correspondence prompted Twitter to settle. Internet-service executives have always been instructed by lawyers not to talk with people about their individual accounts and not to make any promises about what might happen, Goldman said, “for reasons that should now be obvious.”


So the thing right-wingers complain about, lefties being in contact with employees of Twitter and receiving special treatment because of that, is essentially what happened with Alex Berenson? His misinformation is free game now because of some Twitter employee making him a promise? Doesn't sound like left-wing tyranny run-amuck to me.

It goes on:

Quote
This was not the end of the drama, though. Last week, Berenson published a Substack post that included screenshots of a conversation on Twitter’s internal Slack messaging system from April 2021, obtained during the course of the lawsuit. The images show employees discussing a recent White House meeting at which members of the Biden administration were said to have posed a “really tough question about why Alex Berenson hasn’t been kicked off from the platform,” as one Slack message put it. Another alleges that Andy Slavitt, who was at the time a senior adviser to Joe Biden on the administration’s COVID-19 response, specifically mentioned a “data viz that had showed [Berenson] was the epicenter of disinfo.” Berenson has since declared that he will sue the Biden administration for infringing upon his free speech by compelling Twitter to take action against his account.


I don't think members of the Biden administration inquiring over why a notorious spreader of COVID misinformation has not violated Twitter policies to the point of being banned is a violation of free speech, but feel free to correct me Bogie.

---

What's more interesting to me is why an apparently mainstream Republican like Bogie is throwing in with a notorious bullshitter like Alex Berenson.

Actually, it's not interesting. This is what the Republican party has become. The mainstream right is now equivalent to people like Alex Berenson. The fringe of the right-wing has become enmeshed with the mainstream.

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 3 2022 04:46pm
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Dec 3 2022 04:59pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 3 2022 05:43pm)
I don't subscribe to the WSJ, but it is a good outlet. I'll base my replies off the Atlantic article:



Well, there you go.



So the thing right-wingers complain about, lefties being in contact with employees of Twitter and receiving special treatment because of that, is essentially what happened with Alex Berenson? His misinformation is free game now because of some Twitter employee making him a promise? Doesn't sound like left-wing tyranny run-amuck to me.

It goes on:



I don't think members of the Biden administration inquiring over why a notorious spreader of COVID misinformation has not violated Twitter policies to the point of being banned is a violation of free speech, but feel free to correct me Bogie.

---

What's more interesting to me is why an apparently mainstream Republican like Bogie is throwing in with a notorious bullshitter like Alex Berenson.

Actually, it's not interesting. This is what the Republican party has become. The mainstream right is now equivalent to people like Alex Berenson. The fringe of the right-wing has become enmeshed with the mainstream.


Am I a mainstream Republican? I don't think so, but that's neither here nor there. It's a myopic lens through which to view the world. I think Berenson greatly exaggerates the small but real risks posed by the mRNA vaccines. Does that mean I think the government should pressure social media to censor him? Of course not. I can still disagree with someone's conclusions and yet be concerned at what it means to scrub them from the web. You guys are militant fanatics.

What's interesting about the case isn't that Berenson followed Twitter's rules, although that's obviously the case. It's that there's a direct link between Twitter's eventual ban and the Biden administration pressuring Twitter. This will be the basis of future lawsuits.
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Dec 3 2022 05:14pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Dec 3 2022 05:59pm)
Am I a mainstream Republican? I don't think so, but that's neither here nor there. It's a myopic lens through which to view the world. I think Berenson greatly exaggerates the small but real risks posed by the mRNA vaccines. Does that mean I think the government should pressure social media to censor him? Of course not. I can still disagree with someone's conclusions and yet be concerned at what it means to scrub them from the web. You guys are militant fanatics.

What's interesting about the case isn't that Berenson followed Twitter's rules, although that's obviously the case. It's that there's a direct link between Twitter's eventual ban and the Biden administration pressuring Twitter. This will be the basis of future lawsuits.


I think based on the evidence so far, there's not a good reason to believe Berenson was banned simply because of figures who advised the White House on COVID matters.

I also don't think it's obvious Berenson followed Twitter's rules. Maybe he shouldn't have been banned. I don't hold a strong position on the question of whether purveyors of misinformation being banned is a beneficial thing to society, because I don't know that it makes much of a difference.

I do hold the position that right-wingers spending their time defending purveyors of misinformation is fucking embarrassing. You guys really have lost your way.

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 3 2022 05:15pm
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Dec 3 2022 05:39pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 3 2022 06:14pm)
I think based on the evidence so far, there's not a good reason to believe Berenson was banned simply because of figures who advised the White House on COVID matters.

I also don't think it's obvious Berenson followed Twitter's rules. Maybe he shouldn't have been banned. I don't hold a strong position on the question of whether purveyors of misinformation being banned is a beneficial thing to society, because I don't know that it makes much of a difference.

I do hold the position that right-wingers spending their time defending purveyors of misinformation is fucking embarrassing. You guys really have lost your way.


Twitter agrees that he shouldn't have been banned, I'm not sure what else to say.

Tom Cotton was blasted for spreading "conspiracy theories" when he made the obvious connection between Wuhan and the nearby Wuhan Institute of Virology. We now know that that's a perfectly plausible, and probably correct, explanation for the virus's origins. That's why we need to allow contrary narratives, it's part of both the scientific and democratic process. If we lived in a world where we summarily banned people who disagree with me, it would probably be a worse place.
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