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Sep 16 2016 12:34pm
Quote (excellence @ Sep 16 2016 12:56pm)
Mccain was a birther victim as well fwiw. Before (c)lintons movement started on Obama. That whole Panama issue thing.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html



The founders were downright nasty in the propaganda against each other. Hell Hamilton died as a result of such a conflict :o


He was one of my favorites. I like Jackson too. So where does that get me?

Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 16 2016 01:29pm)
She did a whisper campaign. She never officially tied herself to it, but she had subordinates dig out pictures of Obama in muslim garb and question whether he's really a muslim kenyan. The closest you'll get to *officially* linking her is campaign documents showing they strategized to attack Obama's "foreignness" and an interview or two where she refused to directly rebuke it, but instead danced around it with tricky wording to leave open the possibility he's a muslim.
Now, it was extremely obvious clinton was behind it at the time. It doesn't matter whether it was officially her or her campaign or if it can never be officially linked to her. It cropped up during the primaries of Obama v Clinton, not the general election, McCain actually played it cleaner than Clinton. It only appeared in the news once Clinton started getting hammered. And political insiders have talked out it since with just the general assumption clinton ordered it- Powell's emails just this week talked about how Obama himself approached the Clinton campaign and asked her to stop playing dirty, and she refused.

No politician would ever link themselves to dirty tricks like this. Bush did it via Karl Rove during his primary against McCain, with supposedly 3rd party polls that asked questions like "Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain if you knew he fathered an illegitimate black child out of wedlock", because he has an adopted daughter from bangladesh who looks black. It sunk mccain in the primaries and got bush elected. He swift boated kerry along those same lines.


Nobody in washington has ever had any doubts who was behind the birther movement. Its an open secret, Hillary played dirty, using tricks she borrowed from Rove. But you can bet your ass nobody is ever going to be able to officially link her to it any more than they did bush to the black baby campaign. There are no official statements, this is the kind of surreptitiously done whisper campaign that takes extra pains to leave no paper trail. But when the media starts trumpeting that trump is lying when he calls her out on it and saying its false, thats blatant misreporting and unethical biased bullshit.


Its an old game...Rove is just really good at it. So is Clinton. I don't disagree with you about it. It just isn't a deal breaker for me.

With a candidate with all the known negatives of Donald Trump the deal-break threshold is pretty high. I'm not a big fan of any identity politics and Trump is next level stuff in that area.
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Sep 16 2016 12:38pm
Quote (Skinned @ Sep 16 2016 12:34pm)
Its an old game...Rove is just really good at it. So is Clinton. I don't disagree with you about it. It just isn't a deal breaker for me.

With a candidate with all the known negatives of Donald Trump the deal-break threshold is pretty high. I'm not a big fan of any identity politics and Trump is next level stuff in that area.


I could deal with Hillary being a dirty politician who borrowed from Rove, its not like everyone else in DC is spotless. Obama more or less was, and that was the deciding issue for me voting for him over her 8 years ago, but if thats all I held against her, I'd get over the grudge and care about the issues instead. If I'm willing to overlook Trump's gaffe and factory and bully pulpit, I'm willing to do the same for Hillary. But once you strip away both, what are you left with? Overlook those known negatives of trump that center on race baiting and ego and other such identity politics, where do the two stand?
Hillary's similarities to Dubya don't end at her political machinations

This post was edited by Goomshill on Sep 16 2016 12:38pm
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Sep 16 2016 12:43pm
Quote (Skinned @ 16 Sep 2016 14:34)
He was one of my favorites. I like Jackson too. So where does that get me?.

off of US currency in pretty short order tbh

Hamilton really had a chance to be a great one (not that he wasnt, but more so in a true role of poweR)
So much achieved so young and a protege of Washington himself. Maybe its best he died relatively young like Alexander so he couldnt fuck up his legacy in old age.

In other news



:D
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Sep 16 2016 02:26pm
Quote (Skinned @ Sep 16 2016 01:33pm)
Did HRC ever actually question the origin of BO's birth? Or was it just something subordinates did? I remember it coming out, and her immediately saying, almost within a month, that it was just a distraction, around the time she said a Muslim could be POTUS in regards to Obama's crypto-Islam. I know a lot of the activity started by her supporters, and the particular supporter who did it was a Truther who was part of Democrats for McCain.

If your hypothesis is that Trump was an agent of the Clinton's in their conspiracy to spread this, part of her team of subordinates in trying to derail the presidential aspirations of phenomenon Barack Obama, how does that exonerate him now again?

Is she ever on the record being a Birther/Truther? Is Trump on the record as being one of those?

Have either of the people involved, when proven to be wrong in their rumor-mongering, retracted their opinion and admitted they were mistaken?



She did leave it out there for a month or two before she herself said it was nonsense.

Trump for his part said that he had hired some private investigators to see what was true and now after seeing all the evidence he has serious doubts about Obama's nationality. I must have missed the press conference where he revealed all the evidence. Any statement made by Donald Trump is completely worthless, which is the only thing consistent about what he says.

When I google "Hillary started birther" I get the same story about her subordinates and no actual statement by her. I see Trump being one of her agent's in this conspiracy if you are right that it is a big HRC conspiracy, which just makes him a useful pawn. White Identity Politics has really taken off in the past year....The racism within the Tea Party that the Koch's tried their best to suppress enough to be palatable has boiled over and now we're seeing a platform one would expect to see in the South during the Jim Crow era.

Of course she knew what was going on and was letting it play out to her advantage. She is a good politician. Which is why she is enormously successful. Go ahead and google how many laws she coauthored with Republicans in the Senate who vowed they would never work with her. She would work with them all again and we can have a productive Congress instead of an actual Do Nothing Congress. Aren't you tired of all the grid lock? If this goes like everything else in Clinton's career, she is going to have vitriolic opposition to getting a job, get a job and do great and have high approval ratings, her enemies will vow to work with her, but end up working with her extensively because she isn't at all what they thought she was, and then she will move on to the next level of success and advancement, get the same criticism until she gets the job and does great, and her enemies who spit and piss themselves when they meet her end up liking her and working with her successfully.

She is going to be a good president. People are going to have their doubts as women and minorities finally enter the halls of power, it is okay it is happening. And the backlash is expected....some people just hate change....but You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Politics is really dirty. Trump made a good move here in how he handled this.


The number of people that care whether or not she is a woman is about 0 among her opposition you strawmanning idiot.

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Sep 16 2016 02:26pm
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Sep 16 2016 02:36pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Sep 16 2016 02:26pm)
The number of people that care whether or not she is a woman is about 0 among her opposition you strawmanning idiot.


Keep telling yourself that.
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Sep 16 2016 02:38pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Sep 16 2016 02:26pm)
The number of people that care whether or not she is a woman is about 0 among her opposition you strawmanning idiot.


lel
The fact that theres far more people who will vote for her just because she's got tits than those who won't vote for her for the same reason doesn't negate the existence of the latter
Sexist people, both men and women, exist who will hold her being a her against her and would never vote for a woman. They're just a fairly rare species, but far from zero

Its like saying that nobody voted against obama out of hating niggers. Sure they did. But a whole lot more white guilt and black positive racism existed
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Sep 16 2016 02:59pm
Cuban offering 10 million to interview trump alone for four hours.

I wish this would happen
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Sep 16 2016 03:02pm
Quote (low-ki @ Sep 16 2016 12:54pm)


JUST
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Sep 16 2016 03:08pm
Quote (hydrogod @ 16 Sep 2016 16:59)
Cuban offering 10 million to interview trump alone for four hours.

I wish this would happen

the guy who got a luck of the draw deal with yahoo before the dot.com crash, was worth ~2 billion in 2000, purchased an NBA team, and 15+ years later is worth ~3 billion wants to grill him on money?
love to see it.

also 10 million is chump change for these guys. make it 50 million a pop, both donations go to veterans medical facilities/job programs and childrens hospitals of some sort. everyone wins
Quote (low-ki @ 16 Sep 2016 16:54)

Quote (majorblood @ 16 Sep 2016 17:02)
JUST

just horrible.
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