https://www.euronews.com/2023/12/12/hamas-at-breaking-point-claims-israel - "US President Biden warns Israel losing support over 'indiscriminate bombing' of Gaza"
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/12/biden-says-netanyahu-has-to-change-00131399 - "Biden says Netanyahu ‘has to change,’ accuses Israel of ‘indiscriminate bombing’ "
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/biden-israel-starting-lose-support-over-indiscriminate-bombing-gaza-2023-12-12/ - WASHINGTON, Dec 12 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden said on Tuesday that Israel is losing support over its "indiscriminate" bombing of Gaza and that Benjamin Netanyahu should change, exposing a new rift in relations with the Israeli prime minister.

so all media (apart from Israeli) is now reporting that Israel is indiscriminately bombing gaza. This is in line with the comments made in this topic, where pro-israeli posters are referring to all Palestinians as legitimate targets.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 13 2023 02:56pm

Dear Lord help the people in Gaza

Israel has been using it since the 2000s, there has been myriad video evidence that theyve been using it since Oct 11th. theyve even used it at night which makes no sense from a functional POV if they are indeed using it for the purpose theyre saying they are

at this point, Israel/IDF have lost the benefit of the doubt IMO

why would they use it at night with no troops remotely close to the area it was used in? if not for purposes that violate international law?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/lebanon-evidence-of-israels-unlawful-use-of-white-phosphorus-in-southern-lebanon-as-cross-border-hostilities-escalate/

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon

This post was edited by gnarjay on Dec 13 2023 03:04pm

There's no grey area for it in international law. We wrote those international laws with no restrictions on the use of incendiary weapons like white phosphorus because we had just firebombed the shit out of the nazis and japanese. Prior war crime definitions already existed for chemical weapons, and white phosphorous is not a chemical weapon. And when used for smoke or flares its not even a weapon. When it comes to use "against civilians" its under identical legal standing to the use of every other weapon, whether it was bullets from an AK47 or hurling boulders at them with a trebuchet.
Its pretty simple, world powers have long restricted the use of chemical weapons over fear of mutual destruction through their use, so we don't use poison gas or bioweapons like viruses. Some international law has even gone into restricting the use of other classes of weapons like land mines, even if major world powers aren't signatories to that. But there's nothing about incendiaries in general or white phosphorus in specific. Plenty about poison gas, and the evidence is that Hamas used poison gas during their October 7th attack, which is one more to the long list of war crimes perpetrated

Using hospital as a shield is a war crime.
Shooting rockets from civilian population is a war crime
Shooting rockets towards civilian population is a war crime

Use by US forces in Iraq

In November 2004, during the Second Battle of Fallujah, Washington Post reporters embedded with Task Force 2-2, Regimental Combat Team 7 stated that they witnessed artillery guns firing white phosphorus projectiles, which "create a screen of fire that cannot be extinguished with water. Insurgents reported being attacked with a substance that melted their skin, a reaction consistent with white phosphorous burns."[12] The same article also reported, "The corpses of the mujaheddin which we received were burned, and some corpses were melted."[12] The March/April 2005 issue of an official Army publication called Field Artillery Magazine reported that "White phosphorus proved to be an effective and versatile munition and a potent psychological weapon against the insurgents in trench lines and spider holes. ... We fired 'shake and bake' missions at the insurgents using W.P. [white phosphorus] to flush them out and H.E. [high explosives] to take them out".[13][14]

The documentary Fallujah, The Hidden Massacre, produced by RAI TV and released 8 November 2005, showed video and photos that they claimed to be of Fallujah combatants and also civilians, including women and children, who had died of burns caused by white phosphorus during the Second Battle of Fallujah.[15]

On 15 November 2005, following denials to the press from the US ambassadors in London and Rome, the US Department of Defense confirmed that US forces had used white phosphorus as an incendiary weapon in Fallujah, in order to drive combatants out of dug-in positions.[15][16] On 22 November 2005, the Iraqi government stated it would investigate the use of white phosphorus in the battle of Fallujah.[17] On 30 November 2005, the BBC quoted US General Peter Pace saying "It [WP munitions] is not a chemical weapon. It is an incendiary. And it is well within the law of war to use those weapons as they're being used, for marking and for screening."[18] Professor Paul Rodgers from the University of Bradford department of peace and conflict studies said that white phosphorus would probably fall into the category of chemical weapons if it was used directly against people.[15]

from this there is a grey area related to white phosphorous. While some users say it is black and white, this to my mind further supports my claim that its a grey area. a grey area is where two or more people disagree on the validity of the statement.

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 13 2023 03:12pm

blowing up hospitals is a war crime
bombing civilians is a war crime
bombing areas where civilians are heavily populated is a war crime
using white phosphorous is a war crime
poisoning wells is a war crime
killing children and women is a war crime


you want to play this game?