Crucial point missed

Lockdown rhetoric was because Detroit and NYC were slaughtered

The rest of the country was flying completely blind. It’s unfortunate that it took months to get any form of reliable consistent testing to inform us that the rates were actually quite low in the majority of the country. It has much less to do with dishonesty, and more to do with making an educated guess at that time. Yes the lockdown was too early for 95% of the country. And also yes, the country doesn’t have mental stamina to withstand another lockdown. Aka a fucked situation.

As many people have said since the beginning , TESTING EARLY is essential to know what type of scenario you’re getting yourself into. America could not have failed any harder feb-June if it tried. Meanwhile you have federal guidance at that time saying save tests for hospitalized patients only and no outpatient community testing (early on). Flatten the curve at that time is what NY was trying to do, and at a crucial time for them. For the rest of the country it was just far too early.

Now it is too late.

This post was edited by Bazi on Nov 11 2020 07:23pm

But that's the point: Europe did flatten the curve as far down as can realistically be expected in non-island countries which dont want to totally shut down their borders. We still got overrun by the second wave once summer ended.
Yes, the American failure to flatten the curve more, similar to what Europe achieved, is compounding the problems you are facing now, as is the strong anti-mask movement. And yes, Trump deserves a lot of the blame for that. But the core problem would still have remained, even with a far more competent president/leadership.



I guess people all over the Western world are just tired of this strategy, because they've seen it used to ram through unpopular policies which did not have majority support time and time again. At least the half which was already inclined to distrust the government or "the experts" to begin with reacts really allergic to this kind of stuff.



Governments did too. This whole strategy of "the hammer and the dance" or "keeping up various stages of lockdowns and restrictions of public life until a vaccine is available" was always centered around the idea that there would be a vaccine, and that it would become available relatively soon. It looks as if this gamble will pay off and that the chosen path was indeed better than just going "fuck it, we'll just eat those 2m deaths if we let the virus spread unchecked until herd immunity". But it still was a gamble.




Florida did not see the same issues or the same death toll when they had huge numbers during summer. They must have done something better than Cuomo/NY.

Florida and NYC aren't comparable IMO. You have poor people who have aged into institutions versus the affluent aged who moved to florida for golden years. Money = space to distance in , home health care, and all kinds of other shit. Its not analogous.

This post was edited by Skinned on Nov 11 2020 07:27pm

This is political hackery to be quite frank

NYC was hit far earlier when early intubation strategy + hydroxychloroquine was being routinely used, leading to Far excess deaths. That’s not a matter of who is in charge

NYC was legitimately overwhelmed in that their hospital systems were completely full and people were dying at home. FL never reached capacity during their summer wave. When you reach capacity mortality rate will go up as quality of care goes down

FL had the benefit of better therapeutics, better understanding of disease prevention, and the most important benefit of time to properly determine disease prevalence going into the summer. The fact they still did so poorly is actually the opposite of what you said, FL’s performance was disgraceful

This is ridiculous at face value.

The person who manages the cashiers isn't the best cashier. The person who oversees the assembly of a vehicle isn't the best at assembling vehicles.

The panel should not even simply be comprised of "scientists and doctors". Laws, funding, Constitutional concerns, states rights, everything are at play. Any panel on how to deal with this cold needs to involve everyone from doctors and scientists to accountants, economists, lawyers, representatives, and more. Coming up with a comprehensive plan that would effectively handle even a single state and be "effective" is about FAR more than "doctors". Doctors can't even handle their own practices/hospitals. It's still handled by administrators, the overwhelming majority of whom are NOT medical doctors themselves.

Every post you make, you prove exactly how ignorant of things you are.

I wasnt exclusively talking about the U.S. though. The "flatten the curve"-rhetoric was deployed in Europe as well, at a time when we were seeing spiking cases during our first wave; at a time when shut down was indeed necessary. Our governments nonetheless failed to deliver on their early promises once the first lockdown was over. We had a good summer, but as the ferocity of the second wave has shown, this was more because of the summer itself rather than due to the strategy of our governments paying off.

Now that the second wave has hit, we again have too little contact tracing capabilities, too little ICU beds and nurses, our testing capacities are quickly wearing thin, and in the end, a new round of lockdowns was once again the only recipe at stopping the wave. Which of course came at a huge economic and social cost.

We're more or less back to square one. But unlike in spring, we will not be rescued by the warm summer weather once this round of lockdowns is over. The huge, unanswered question remains: the current lockdowns end, and then what? What's the plan for getting over this winter without lockdowns every 4 weeks? And that's not just me asking these questions - our government got grilled by the opposition leaders asking these exact questions when they defended their current covid strategy in a recent parliamentary session. Those opposition leaders are seasoned and professional career politicians, not some nutty Alex Jones types.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 11 2020 07:46pm

It should be run by sons and son in laws.

This post was edited by Skinned on Nov 11 2020 07:54pm

I can’t speak for Europe, I know you have waves of tourism as well the end of summer. In America we really didn’t do shit and our summer across the country so a slowly rising plateau that was always going to cultivate a violent winter. Europe you were hit so much earlier than the US where we should have had the time to do widespread testing, then true contact tracing. Our federal government and half the population still doesn’t believe this is real so I’m not sure why I’m surprised by any of this

To be clear, even the “lockdowns” we had earlier weren’t legit lockdowns. At no point since March were bars/restaurants closed in IA. There was a brief session where there hours were reduced. And what happened - more people just gathered in those shorter time allotments. Right now our governor put out a mandate saying crowds 25> are not allowed. Ok? As if this will make any difference in the world.

Europe was certainly in a position to perform contact tracing with how well it was controlled by summers end. It’s unfortunate that just several weeks of fuckups can turn to this. I am not sure what testing is like over there , even when it was controlled by summers end. The answer to this was always rampant outpatient testing. Everyone knew this. Yet it was never accomplished on the scale it needed to be

This post was edited by Bazi on Nov 11 2020 07:58pm

In Europe, we did proper contact tracing throughout the summer. It quickly broke down during the fall wave though. Our local public health offices which were tasked with it just couldnt keep it up. No chance, not at all.

Depends on the qualifications of the sons and son in laws.

While it may seem strange to you, the reason most CEOs, Presidents, and other executives in businesses may not specialize in that business is because specialists are not very good decision makers, and they seldom agree. It's the job of the executive to take all the information provided by all the specialists and use it to formulate a plan that is most likely, based on all input, to insure the success of the business.

Government is not very different in that respect, and it's part of why ANYONE (35+ and Born US Citizen) can run for office. It's not about who has the most letters behind their name. It's about who can listen to the specialists and utilize the information given to come up with a gameplan. Likewise, with any panel on how to combat a virus, the case is almost identical. Why might Kuschner or Jr. be good for the job? They've both got a lifetime's worth of business executive experience. They may not be experts on the specific subject, but they ARE experts when it comes to formulating plans based on the input of experts.

Hunter Biden, on the other hand, is none of the above. Hence why the "meme" was so worthless.