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Jun 27 2013 08:11am
Question: Does the Bible have errors/contradictions/incest/rape/sacrifice (etc etc)???

Answer: Yes

Conclusion: The Bible is NOT the word of God

Case Closed.
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Jun 27 2013 08:15am
Question: Does the Quaran have errors/contradictions/incest/rape/sacrifice (etc etc)???

Answer: Yes - winged horse, flying carpet, lulz!

Conclusion: The Quaran is NOT the word of God

Case Closed.
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Jun 27 2013 11:23am
Quote (duffman316 @ Jun 27 2013 05:15pm)
Question: Does the Quaran have errors/contradictions/incest/rape/sacrifice (etc etc)???

Answer: Yes - winged horse, flying carpet, lulz!

Conclusion: The Quaran is NOT the word of God

Case Closed.


Nowhere does the Qur'an mention any of the crap you just posted, you LIAR
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Jun 27 2013 11:24am
How did the belief in god become so ubiquitous?
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Jun 27 2013 11:36am
The Bible does not have errors, or contradictions. People just take things out of context, etc. and say there are errors, and contradictions. Old Testament = Christ concealed(Christ was prophesied, but not revealed). New Testament = Christ revealed(prophecies of the Old Testament came true about him). God the Father allowed things to go on in the Old Testament because of the hardness of peoples hearts. When Christ came he done away with alot of the Old Testament ways, and we now lean on grace of the New Testament, and not the law of the Old Testament.
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Jun 27 2013 11:39am
Quote (duffman316 @ Jun 27 2013 09:15am)
Question: Does the Quaran have errors/contradictions/incest/rape/sacrifice (etc etc)???

Answer: Yes - winged horse, flying carpet, lulz!

Conclusion: The Quaran is NOT the word of God

Case Closed.


Also the evil genie, can't forget that.
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Jun 27 2013 11:54am
Quote (Warrior-Storm @ Jun 27 2013 08:36pm)
The Bible does not have errors, or contradictions. People just take things out of context, etc. and say there are errors, and contradictions. Old Testament = Christ concealed(Christ was prophesied, but not revealed). New Testament = Christ revealed(prophecies of the Old Testament came true about him). God the Father allowed things to go on in the Old Testament because of the hardness of peoples hearts. When Christ came he done away with a lot of the Old Testament ways, and we now lean on grace of the New Testament, and not the law of the Old Testament.


A - CLEAR contradictions of the Bible:

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?
Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?
Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?
Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

11. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

Question: What is taken out of context? HUH???
Answer: NOTHING is taken out of context; the Bible HAS countless contradictions, either you like it or not
PS I will keep shoving this in your face just to remind you what a joke the Bible is

B - Christ did NOT come to abolish ANYTHING from the Old Laws:

The Law and the Prophets

“Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. / Matthew 5:17-20

Question: How can you be MORE RIGHTEOUS that the Scribes and Pharisees, EXCEPT by keeping the Laws and the Commandments???

Clearly, Jesus Christ in the Bible is saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you claim; something which proves that you haven't even read your own scriptures, and are totally ignorant of real facts.


This post was edited by poulgaragr on Jun 27 2013 11:58am
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Jun 27 2013 01:50pm
Quote (poulgaragr @ Jun 27 2013 01:54pm)
A - CLEAR contradictions of the Bible:

1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?
Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?
Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?
Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?
After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

11. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

Question: What is taken out of context? HUH???
Answer: NOTHING is taken out of context; the Bible HAS countless contradictions, either you like it or not
PS I will keep shoving this in your face just to remind you what a joke the Bible is

B - Christ did NOT come to abolish ANYTHING from the Old Laws:

The Law and the Prophets

“Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. / Matthew 5:17-20

Question: How can you be MORE RIGHTEOUS that the Scribes and Pharisees, EXCEPT by keeping the Laws and the Commandments???

Clearly, Jesus Christ in the Bible is saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you claim; something which proves that you haven't even read your own scriptures, and are totally ignorant of real facts.


1.Is this a contradiction? Not at all. In 2 Samuel 24:1, God incited David to number Israel because God was angry with David. Ultimately, God wanted to teach David not to trust in his number of fighting men, but to trust in Him. So, He moved to let David count the fighting men of Israel. He used Satan to do it which is why in 1 Chronicles 21:1, it says Satan moved David to count the men. Both are true. God most probably either sent Satan or allowed Satan to incite David. But, how can God send Satan to do a job and yet God is not responsible for the sin? Simple. God's authority extends even over Satan. God can use Satan to accomplish His ultimate will by simply giving permission to Satan to do that which Satan already desires to do. We see this in the crucifixion of Christ where evil men brought Jesus to death. Yet, at the same time, it was the predetermined plan of God that this be done.

2.The solution to the difference in counts for Israel seems to be answered in the Hebrew word for "valiant," which is "chayil" found in 2 Samuel 24:9. It means, "men of valor, army, host, etc." It seems to mean that the men numbered in 2 Samuel 24:9 were those with battle experience where the men of 1 Chronicles 21:5 were not. It was most probably true that there were an additional 300,000 men ready for battle who had not yet experienced it. Therefore, 2 Sam. 24:9 numbers only the experienced men, where 1 Chronicles 21:5 numbers all men of battle ready age.

3.The solution seems to provided for us in the following verse, 1 Chronicles 21:6, which says, "But Levi and Benjamin counted he not among them: for the king's word was abominable to Joab." Verse six states that the numbering process had not yet been completed since the tribes of Levi and Benjamin had not been numbered.

4.Some people say this discrepancy is due to a copyist’s error. The Hebrew in 2 Samuel 24 says “7” while the O.T. Greek Septuagint (LXX) says “3.” All manuscripts say “3” in 1 Chronicles 21. The Hebrew letter Zayin (“7”) looks almost identical to the Hebrew letter Gimel (“3”) and this view assumes a scribe made a mistake in writing the number.
A better explanation is that a famine had already begun several years before (2 Samuel 21:1) and when God spoke to David, the famine would continue for three years. In the 1 Chronicles 21 account, three choices are given to David. The latter two choices are the same as the 2 Samuel 24 account, but the first choice is different, both in the number of years mentioned and in the way the punishment is worded. The Lord there does not invite David to choose 3 years of famine, but rather asks, ". . . shall seven years of famine come to you in your land?"
2 Samuel 21:1 tells us, "Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the Lord. And the Lord said, ‘It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.’" Three years of famine had already occurred. Add to this the current year (the time which passed from 2 Samuel 21:1 to 2 Samuel 24:13), and then the three years of famine as recorded in 1 Chronicles 21:12, and it equals seven years of famine. The two accounts are not a contradiction, but 2 Samuel counts from when the famine began and 1 Chronicles 21 counts the remaining years if David chose them.

5.The correct age of Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem is 22. 2 Kings 8:17 tells us that Ahaziah's father Joram ben Ahab was thirty-two when he became king and he died eight years later, at the age of forty. Therefore, Ahaziah could not have been forty-two at the time of his father's death at age forty." (Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, page. 206-207.) The discrepency in ages is due to a copyist error. We can see that the difference in ages is 20 years. The system of number notation used by the Jews at the time of Ezra consisted of horizontal hooks that represented decades. would equal the number 14 where would be 24. If one or both of the hooks were smudged or flaked off of a papyri, then the dates would be off by ten years or a factor of ten. The fact that this is a copyist error does not invalidate the inspiration or authority of Scripture. Remember, God inspired the originals. They were without error. The copies have problems, though very very few. The copies are copies of inspired documents and, unfortunately, some copyist errors did creep into the manuscripts. However, they do not affect any doctrinal areas and are very rare.

6.The correct age of Jehoiachin was 18, not 8. Obviously, Jehoiachin was 18 when he began his rule since it says he did evil in the site of the Lord which suggests maturity and responsibility.
The discrepancy in ages is probably due to a copyist error. We can see that the difference in ages is 10 years. The system of number notation used by the Jews at the time of Ezra consisted of horizontal hooks that represented values of ten. would equal the number 14 where would be 24. If one or both of the hooks were smudged or flaked off of a papyri, then the dates would be off by values of 10 years. Does this mean the Bible is not trustworthy? Not at all. Inspiration is ascribed to the original writings and not to the copies. Scribes made errors. However, the errors were very infrequent and from other information in the Bible, we can easily ascertain what the correct age is. Another possible explanation is that the difference of 10 years from the two different texts could be that he began to rule with his father at the age of eight but did not take complete control until the age of 18, a 10-year difference.

7.One verse has precise 3 months and 10 days, and the other just a rounded whole number 3 months. No contradiction, just what is written for each book.

8.David’s reign as king was indeed planned in place by God. In order to understand the list of these warriors, David’s election as king over Israel is essential. Prior to his kingship David had to outlast and outsmart his greatest rival; King Saul. During this period, David groomed and raised mighty men of valor and strength. When he became king, his warriors also rose to notoriety. These two lists document their exploits. In every other respect the two lists agree with one another, except that there are considerable numbers of errors in the text. These errors are more prominent with names. Frequently, other misspellings occur. The true text cannot be determined with certainty, but it prevents against collusion, as well as provide with certainty, that theological principles are not lost.
- Are these two different spellings for two unique person(s) or a misspelling/surname for one person?
What was mentioned was the first class of David’s heroes. Word here is Jasheb-basshebeth, יֹשֵׁב בַּשֶּׁבֶת II Sam. 23:8 instead of Jashobeam, יָשָׁבְעָם I Chr. 11:11. It is a spurious reading according to Kennicott’s conjecture (Kennicott is textual critic referenced by Keil and Delitzsch’s commentary for 1 Chronicles and 2 Samuel). The copyist probably took a word from the line above-2 Sam. 23:7, and added ‘bashevet,’ בַּשָּׁבֶת. He/she took only the consonants and mistakened it for ‘am’, which is the end vowel-consonant in the 1 Chronicle 11:11 writing. Chronicles multiple spellings lead to the more accurate spelling (1 Chron. 11:11 and 27:2). Septuagint (LXX) fits more with the Chronicle spelling as well—the translated spelling there is ‘Ishbaal’ or ‘Ishbosheth’. That being said, 2 Sam. 23:8 and 1 Chr. 11:11 from the Hebrew text seem to be less precise than the Septuagint, but there is no apparent contradiction—rather a misspelling from a copy error. (Thompson, J.A., NAC: 1, 2 Chronicles, Broadman Publishers, 1994., 120)
*Note of reference: The MT (Masoretic Text) is clearly not the original Hebrew or Hebrew of 1st century AD, but part of the oldest fragments date from the 9th century AD (most complete texts from 10th-11th century AD). It is not as concise as the LXX. Most of the early century Christians, who were of Greek influence, used the Septuagint (LXX) more often when it became available around 3rd century BC.
- One mentions the ‘chief of three’ the other mentions ‘chief of the officers’. Are these addressing the same group?
The answer can be taken similarly from the explanation above. The root word from both books are identical-(hasshalishi, הַשָּׁלִשִׁי: II Sam. 23:8; hasshalishim, הַשָּׁלִישִׁים: I Chr. 11 11). It can denote a leader of the three or officer(s). Because of the difference of translations, chief of the three or officers are both accurate. (Keil and Delitzsch, “Commentary on the Old Testament: 1&2 Chronicles, 1&2 Samuel”, Hendrickson Publishers, 2006)
Was it three or eight hundred men?
1 Samuel 18:7 addressed that Saul slained his thousands while David his tens of thousands. The idea here can be noted. The Hebrew numeral “hundred” may denote a military group rather than a number. Payne of the EBC suggested that the problem is that the original ‘eight’ was misread and then changed to three (1 Chronicles 11:11). Still the spelling between the three (shalosh) and eight (shemoneh) are completely different, so how could this mistake be made?
Nevertheless, it is important to note numerous of scribal errors were made upon the copy of 2 Samuel and then corrected by the chronicler. Another possible explanation is that these were two different incidents since a spear was mentioned in one, and none in the other. There is definitely the possibility of the second case, but the passages are too similar. There is still no contradiction in meaning, rather a scribal error (a rather large one I’ll say) that can be easily reconciled
Was he a Tahkemonite (2 Sam. 23:8) or a Hakmonite (1 Chr. 11:11)?
This is another case of copy error, a misspelling. The 2 Samuel passage is again the faulty one and is corrected in the Chronicle writing. The correct reading is upon multiple attestations in 1 Chronicles 11:1 with 27:32. This is another weak argument for a contradiction.
After looking at the evidence one can come to the conclusion that scribal error has been an issue with the copying of the text. There is however, no contradiction to note or a difference in events. The meaning of the text: name of Jashobeam, position as chief, how many he killed, and place he was from can easily be reconciled rather than attributed as contradiction. Does the copy errors deconstruct any theological foundations? Clearly, the answer is no, while scribal errors are found, contradictions are not evident.

9.2 Samuel 5 talks about David defeating the Philistines. 2 Samuel 6 talks about David bringing the Ark to the house of Obededom the Gittite three months and then after he took it into Jerusalem.
1 Chronicles 13 talks about David bringing the Ark to the house of Obededom the Gittite three months. 1 Chronicles 14 talks about David defeating the Philistines. 1 Chronicles 15 talks about David bringing the Ark into Jerusalem.
Here, there is no contradiction. David brings the Ark to Jerusalem after defeating the Philistines in both books. You must have not read it right.

10. There is no contradiction here, if one bothers to read the full verses of Genesis 6:19 and Genesis 7:2-3. To begin, Genesis 7:2-3 does not say that Noah brought 7 pairs of each type of animal onto the ark. It only says that Noah brought 7 pairs of clean animals and fowls onto the ark. In fact, verse 2 specifically says that Noah brought only one pair of each type of unclean animals onto the ark. Further, this claim to a contradiction leaves off a very important clause of Genesis 6:19. “And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, TO KEEP THEM ALIVE WITH THEE: they shall be male and female.” The point is that Genesis 6:19 specifically says that Noah was to bring one pair of every type of animals to KEEP THEM ALIVE (i.e. so that their types could be propagated after the flood). Genesis 7:2-3 includes further instructions that Noah was to bring on ADDITIONAL clean animals for the purpose of the sacrifices important in Old Testament religion. In Genesis 8:20, after the flood, Noah built an altar and sacrificed of every clean beast and fowl unto the LORD. Thus, we see that the purpose of these extra animals was for Noah and his family to be able to keep the sacrifices utilised in Old Testament times. Obviously, if these extra clean animals were used as sacrifices, then they couldn't have been on the ark for the purpose of “keeping them alive”. They were there for sacrificial purposes. Thus, we see that there is no contradiction between Genesis 6:19, which details the taking of one pair of every animal type so as to propagate the species, and Genesis 7:2-3, which details the taking on of additional clean animals who were NOT to be “kept alive”, in addition to the single pair which was for the purpose of propagating the clean kinds of animals.

11.This is most probably a copyist error or a copy of a manuscript where the number was altered through decay. 1 Chron. 18:4 is probably the correct number since it is a better preserved manuscript. "Probably on earlier copyist inadvertently omitted the word "chariot" that we find supplied in some translations. This in turn created a problem for a later copyist who would have recognized that it was not proper Hebrew structure to write "one thousand seven thousand" horsemen," so he would have reduced the second "thousand" to "hundred" resulting in the reading we now have in 2 Samuel 8:4.

As a believer reads the scriptures, he will occasionally come across what are termed "copyist’s errors." These are apparent discrepancies found primarily in the OT, particularly within the historical books of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles. The two books of Samuel with the two books of Kings parallel the two books of Chronicles in recording the history of Israel. Together, the six books begin with the monarchy of Saul and then finish with Cyrus's decree to allow the Jews safe return to the land. The “copyist’s errors” occur when the two sets of histories are studied concurrently. Information contained in Kings will be exactly the same as the account in Chronicles, but a slight alteration exists between the two narratives. No contradictions, just copying errors, and the difference between Hebrew structure compared to other language structures.

The Bible is not a joke. It's only a joke to those who don't believe.

Yes, Jesus came to fulfill the law, not destroy it. He fulfilled the Ten Commandments by obeying them his whole life, and not breaking one of them, and also fulfilled the prophets prophecies that they prophesied about him. The scribes and pharisees proclaimed to be of God by speaking about God, and his laws, but their heart was far from him. In actions they denied him. So, they didn't even keep the law, and the commandments. If we believe in Jesus, and allow him to live in us then he is the one doing the good works in us, and we will obey the Ten Commandments. We are not perfect, and we will fall, and make mistakes and sin. So, what I was saying is that the Ten Commandments do not save a person. The Ten Commandments condemn you to death because we can't follow the law of our ownselves. We have all broken at least one commandment, and if you're guilty of breaking one then you're guilty of breaking them all. We have all sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. There is a difference in grace, and the law. Paul talks alot about grace, and law(mainly in Romans and Galatians). Take these verses into account:
2 Corinthians Chapter 3 verses 12-16
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Romans Chapter 3 verses 20-23
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans Chapter 6 verses 12-14
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians Chapter 2 verses 16-21
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians Chapter 3
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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Jun 27 2013 04:00pm
So in 77 pages what have we learned? Nothing.

I really hope you didnt actually type all that out lol...
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Jun 27 2013 05:11pm
Quote (Warrior-Storm @ Jun 27 2013 01:50pm)
1.Is this a contradiction? Not at all. In 2 Samuel 24:1, God incited David to number Israel because God was angry with David. Ultimately, God wanted to teach David not to trust in his number of fighting men, but to trust in Him. So, He moved to let David count the fighting men of Israel. He used Satan to do it which is why in 1 Chronicles 21:1, it says Satan moved David to count the men. Both are true. God most probably either sent Satan or allowed Satan to incite David. But, how can God send Satan to do a job and yet God is not responsible for the sin? Simple. God's authority extends even over Satan. God can use Satan to accomplish His ultimate will by simply giving permission to Satan to do that which Satan already desires to do. We see this in the crucifixion of Christ where evil men brought Jesus to death. Yet, at the same time, it was the predetermined plan of God that this be done.

2.The solution to the difference in counts for Israel seems to be answered in the Hebrew word for "valiant," which is "chayil" found in 2 Samuel 24:9. It means, "men of valor, army, host, etc." It seems to mean that the men numbered in 2 Samuel 24:9 were those with battle experience where the men of 1 Chronicles 21:5 were not. It was most probably true that there were an additional 300,000 men ready for battle who had not yet experienced it. Therefore, 2 Sam. 24:9 numbers only the experienced men, where 1 Chronicles 21:5 numbers all men of battle ready age.

3.The solution seems to provided for us in the following verse, 1 Chronicles 21:6, which says, "But Levi and Benjamin counted he not among them: for the king's word was abominable to Joab." Verse six states that the numbering process had not yet been completed since the tribes of Levi and Benjamin had not been numbered.

4.Some people say this discrepancy is due to a copyist’s error.  The Hebrew in 2 Samuel 24 says “7” while the O.T. Greek Septuagint (LXX) says “3.”  All manuscripts say “3” in 1 Chronicles 21.  The Hebrew letter Zayin (“7”) looks almost identical to the Hebrew letter Gimel (“3”) and this view assumes a scribe made a mistake in writing the number.
A better explanation is that a famine had already begun several years before (2 Samuel 21:1) and when God spoke to David, the famine would continue for three years.  In the 1 Chronicles 21 account, three choices are given to David.  The latter two choices are the same as the 2 Samuel 24 account, but the first choice is different, both in the number of years mentioned and in the way the punishment is worded.  The Lord there does not invite David to choose 3 years of famine, but rather asks, ". . . shall seven years of famine come to you in your land?"
2 Samuel 21:1 tells us, "Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the Lord.  And the Lord said, ‘It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.’"  Three years of famine had already occurred.  Add to this the current year (the time which passed from 2 Samuel 21:1 to 2 Samuel 24:13), and then the three years of famine as recorded in 1 Chronicles 21:12, and it equals seven years of famine.  The two accounts are not a contradiction, but 2 Samuel counts from when the famine began and 1 Chronicles 21 counts the remaining years if David chose them.

5.The correct age of Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem is 22. 2 Kings 8:17 tells us that Ahaziah's father Joram ben Ahab was thirty-two when he became king and he died eight years later, at the age of forty. Therefore, Ahaziah could not have been forty-two at the time of his father's death at age forty." (Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, page. 206-207.) The discrepency in ages is due to a copyist error. We can see that the difference in ages is 20 years. The system of number notation used by the Jews at the time of Ezra consisted of horizontal hooks that represented decades. would equal the number 14 where would be 24. If one or both of the hooks were smudged or flaked off of a papyri, then the dates would be off by ten years or a factor of ten. The fact that this is a copyist error does not invalidate the inspiration or authority of Scripture. Remember, God inspired the originals. They were without error. The copies have problems, though very very few. The copies are copies of inspired documents and, unfortunately, some copyist errors did creep into the manuscripts. However, they do not affect any doctrinal areas and are very rare.

6.The correct age of Jehoiachin was 18, not 8. Obviously, Jehoiachin was 18 when he began his rule since it says he did evil in the site of the Lord which suggests maturity and responsibility.
The discrepancy in ages is probably due to a copyist error. We can see that the difference in ages is 10 years. The system of number notation used by the Jews at the time of Ezra consisted of horizontal hooks that represented values of ten. would equal the number 14 where would be 24. If one or both of the hooks were smudged or flaked off of a papyri, then the dates would be off by values of 10 years. Does this mean the Bible is not trustworthy? Not at all. Inspiration is ascribed to the original writings and not to the copies. Scribes made errors. However, the errors were very infrequent and from other information in the Bible, we can easily ascertain what the correct age is. Another possible explanation is that the difference of 10 years from the two different texts could be that he began to rule with his father at the age of eight but did not take complete control until the age of 18, a 10-year difference.

7.One verse has precise 3 months and 10 days, and the other just a rounded whole number 3 months. No contradiction, just what is written for each book.

8.David’s reign as king was indeed planned in place by God.  In order to understand the list of these warriors, David’s election as king over Israel is essential.  Prior to his kingship David had to outlast and outsmart his greatest rival; King Saul.  During this period, David groomed and raised mighty men of valor and strength.  When he became king, his warriors also rose to notoriety.  These two lists document their exploits.  In every other respect the two lists agree with one another, except that there are considerable numbers of errors in the text.  These errors are more prominent with names.  Frequently, other misspellings occur.  The true text cannot be determined with certainty, but it prevents against collusion, as well as provide with certainty, that theological principles are not lost.
- Are these two different spellings for two unique person(s) or a misspelling/surname for one person?
What was mentioned was the first class of David’s heroes.  Word here is Jasheb-basshebeth, יֹשֵׁב בַּשֶּׁבֶת  II Sam. 23:8  instead of Jashobeam, יָשָׁבְעָם  I Chr. 11:11.  It is a spurious reading according to Kennicott’s conjecture (Kennicott is textual critic referenced by Keil and Delitzsch’s commentary for 1 Chronicles and 2 Samuel).  The copyist probably took a word from the line above-2 Sam. 23:7, and added ‘bashevet,’ בַּשָּׁבֶת.  He/she took only the consonants and mistakened it for ‘am’, which is the end vowel-consonant in the 1 Chronicle 11:11 writing.  Chronicles multiple spellings lead to the more accurate spelling (1 Chron. 11:11 and 27:2).  Septuagint (LXX) fits more with the Chronicle spelling as well—the translated spelling there is ‘Ishbaal’ or ‘Ishbosheth’.  That being said, 2 Sam. 23:8 and 1 Chr. 11:11 from the Hebrew text seem to be less precise than the Septuagint, but there is no apparent contradiction—rather a misspelling from a copy error. (Thompson, J.A., NAC: 1, 2 Chronicles, Broadman Publishers, 1994., 120)
*Note of reference:  The MT (Masoretic Text) is clearly not the original Hebrew or Hebrew of 1st century AD, but part of the oldest fragments date from the 9th century AD (most complete texts from 10th-11th century AD).  It is not as concise as the LXX.  Most of the early century Christians, who were of Greek influence, used the Septuagint (LXX) more often when it became available around 3rd century BC.
- One mentions the ‘chief of three’ the other mentions ‘chief of the officers’.  Are these addressing the same group?
The answer can be taken similarly from the explanation above.  The root word from both books are identical-(hasshalishi, הַשָּׁלִשִׁי:  II Sam. 23:8; hasshalishim, הַשָּׁלִישִׁים:  I Chr. 11 11).  It can denote a leader of the three or officer(s).  Because of the difference of translations, chief of the three or officers are both accurate.  (Keil and Delitzsch, “Commentary on the Old Testament: 1&2 Chronicles, 1&2 Samuel”, Hendrickson Publishers, 2006)
Was it three or eight hundred men?
1 Samuel 18:7 addressed that Saul slained his thousands while David his tens of thousands.  The idea here can be noted.  The Hebrew numeral “hundred” may denote a military group rather than a number.  Payne of the EBC suggested that the problem is that the original ‘eight’ was misread and then changed to three (1 Chronicles 11:11).  Still the spelling between the three (shalosh) and eight (shemoneh) are completely different, so how could this mistake be made?
Nevertheless, it is important to note numerous of scribal errors were made upon the copy of 2 Samuel and then corrected by the chronicler.  Another possible explanation is that these were two different incidents since a spear was mentioned in one, and none in the other.  There is definitely the possibility of the second case, but the passages are too similar.  There is still no contradiction in meaning, rather a scribal error (a rather large one I’ll say) that can be easily reconciled
Was he a Tahkemonite (2 Sam. 23:8) or a Hakmonite (1 Chr. 11:11)?
This is another case of copy error, a misspelling.  The 2 Samuel passage is again the faulty one and is corrected in the Chronicle writing.  The correct reading is upon multiple attestations in 1 Chronicles 11:1 with 27:32.  This is another weak argument for a contradiction.
After looking at the evidence one can come to the conclusion that scribal error has been an issue with the copying of the text.  There is however, no contradiction to note or a difference in events.  The meaning of the text: name of Jashobeam, position as chief, how many he killed, and place he was from can easily be reconciled rather than attributed as contradiction. Does the copy errors deconstruct any theological foundations?  Clearly, the answer is no, while scribal errors are found, contradictions are not evident.

9.2 Samuel 5 talks about David defeating the Philistines. 2 Samuel 6 talks about David bringing the Ark to the house of Obededom the Gittite three months and then after he took it into Jerusalem.
1 Chronicles 13 talks about David bringing the Ark to the house of Obededom the Gittite three months. 1 Chronicles 14 talks about David defeating the Philistines. 1 Chronicles 15 talks about David bringing the Ark into Jerusalem.
Here, there is no contradiction. David brings the Ark to Jerusalem after defeating the Philistines in both books. You must have not read it right.

10. There is no contradiction here, if one bothers to read the full verses of Genesis 6:19 and Genesis 7:2-3. To begin, Genesis 7:2-3 does not say that Noah brought 7 pairs of each type of animal onto the ark. It only says that Noah brought 7 pairs of clean animals and fowls onto the ark. In fact, verse 2 specifically says that Noah brought only one pair of each type of unclean animals onto the ark. Further, this claim to a contradiction leaves off a very important clause of Genesis 6:19. “And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, TO KEEP THEM ALIVE WITH THEE: they shall be male and female.” The point is that Genesis 6:19 specifically says that Noah was to bring one pair of every type of animals to KEEP THEM ALIVE (i.e. so that their types could be propagated after the flood). Genesis 7:2-3 includes further instructions that Noah was to bring on ADDITIONAL clean animals for the purpose of the sacrifices important in Old Testament religion. In Genesis 8:20, after the flood, Noah built an altar and sacrificed of every clean beast and fowl unto the LORD. Thus, we see that the purpose of these extra animals was for Noah and his family to be able to keep the sacrifices utilised in Old Testament times. Obviously, if these extra clean animals were used as sacrifices, then they couldn't have been on the ark for the purpose of “keeping them alive”. They were there for sacrificial purposes. Thus, we see that there is no contradiction between Genesis 6:19, which details the taking of one pair of every animal type so as to propagate the species, and Genesis 7:2-3, which details the taking on of additional clean animals who were NOT to be “kept alive”, in addition to the single pair which was for the purpose of propagating the clean kinds of animals.

11.This is most probably a copyist error or a copy of a manuscript where the number was altered through decay. 1 Chron. 18:4 is probably the correct number since it is a better preserved manuscript. "Probably on earlier copyist inadvertently omitted the word "chariot" that we find supplied in some translations. This in turn created a problem for a later copyist who would have recognized that it was not proper Hebrew structure to write "one thousand seven thousand" horsemen," so he would have reduced the second "thousand" to "hundred" resulting in the reading we now have in 2 Samuel 8:4.

As a believer reads the scriptures, he will occasionally come across what are termed "copyist’s errors." These are apparent discrepancies found primarily in the OT, particularly within the historical books of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles. The two books of Samuel with the two books of Kings parallel the two books of Chronicles in recording the history of Israel. Together, the six books begin with the monarchy of Saul and then finish with Cyrus's decree to allow the Jews safe return to the land.  The “copyist’s errors” occur when the two sets of histories are studied concurrently.  Information contained in Kings will be exactly the same as the account in Chronicles, but a slight alteration exists between the two narratives. No contradictions, just copying errors, and the difference between Hebrew structure compared to other language structures.

The Bible is not a joke. It's only a joke to those who don't believe.

Yes, Jesus came to fulfill the law, not destroy it. He fulfilled the Ten Commandments by obeying them his whole life, and not breaking one of them, and also fulfilled the prophets prophecies that they prophesied about him. The scribes and pharisees proclaimed to be of God by speaking about God, and his laws, but their heart was far from him. In actions they denied him. So, they didn't even keep the law, and the commandments. If we believe in Jesus, and allow him to live in us then he is the one doing the good works in us, and we will obey the Ten Commandments. We are not perfect, and we will fall, and make mistakes and sin. So, what I was saying is that the Ten Commandments do not save a person. The Ten Commandments condemn you to death because we can't follow the law of our ownselves. We have all broken at least one commandment, and if you're guilty of breaking one then you're guilty of breaking them all. We have all sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. There is a difference in grace, and the law. Paul talks alot about grace, and law(mainly in Romans and Galatians). Take these verses into account:
2 Corinthians Chapter 3 verses 12-16
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Romans Chapter 3 verses 20-23
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans Chapter 6 verses 12-14
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians Chapter 2 verses 16-21
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians Chapter 3
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


That's a whole lot of probably and not much fact.
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