Force multipliers that have been promised to Ukraine, with some actually being delivered, in quantities worth billions, yet here we are. The ultimate force multiplier are nukes, and as soon as western countries start bombing Russian cities and internal basis, you'd risk all NATO capitals becoming legitimate targets. The Romanians nor the Poles would actually risk their internal bases becoming launch pads for attacks, for obvious reasons, because it 100% legitimizes them becoming subsequent targets.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Jul 23 2024 09:09am

Fixed

Its a literal drop in the ocean what Ukraine has been sent. Furthermore with huge limitations on deep strike capability.
The weapon systems that have arrived have proven they are force multipliers on the battlefield HIMAR in particular. The Russian S300's 400's and alleged S500 battery's have all been proven inept at intercepting Western missiles.
Erdogan and Modi kicking themselves upon the realisation.

Are you suggesting Russia is a match for NATO in a conventional war?

Where did I say Western countries would bomb Russian cities? Occupied parts of Ukraine. Conventionally, obliterated. In my opinion that would be the response to Russia using a tactical nuke.
What you are describing is brinksmanship of the longer range nuclear weapons; What benefit does Putin and other responsible firing officers have to annihilation?
End the world over losing his units in Ukraine, or continue existing and absorbing the loss; Pretty clear choice.

I would agree that any country staging NATO conventional strikes would be legitimate targets for Russia. Thats baked in to the equation.
I don't agree Putin goes directly to nuking any and every NATO country. Its a lose lose for Russia.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jul 23 2024 09:17am

The only responsible are Putin & the ones enabling him. They all have alot of their family members in western countries.

Define conventional war. You think Russia would idly sit by and have NATO planes take off in Poland and Romania and just accept that it's okay for them to do that without striking back at those launch sites? Why do you think they'd agree to this sandbox war? Why would Romania or Poland agree to this or is it another eastern European people that would be acceptable sacrifices? In reality, as soon as stuff like this happens, they target those places as well because they would become legitimate targets. High end western weapons are pretty much all dependent on sophisticated comms/targeting mechanism that heavily rely on things like satellites, which again would become legitimate targets (and quite easy to pick off).

Do you live in an alternate reality? These are some facts real quick

NATO scaped together 155 shell from wherever they could find until they couldn't find no more (and still Russia has a huge artillery advantage)
All available air defence systems and interceptor missiles were sent to Ukraine, if you want to order lets say a patriot battery today the order will be fulfilled a decade later (If you're lucky because Ukraine has got priority and we don't know when the war will end)

A drop in the ocean, lol

Conventional war is everything bar nukes.

I'm suggesting Putin would not strike back in a nuclear capacity because that's the net end of Russia. It would also have to preface that the other strike officers in Russia went along with essentially signing Moscow's own death warrant. There is no guarantee they would.

Are you or are you not suggesting Russia is a match for NATO in a conventional war?
If so what evidence supports that theory?

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jul 23 2024 09:30am

Why would a country engage in a obviously losing 'conventional' sandbox war, when it's one country against the collective of 20+ countries, spanning across the 2 wealthiest continents? So then, the logical follow up question is if a country was facing such a scenario, why wouldn't they fight back by other/any means necessary? Again i point you to satellites. There's less than 10k satellites in orbit and they dictate all logistics, including modern militaries. All Russia would have to do is knock out a few dozens strategic satellites and it would leave western militaries in disarray. It works both ways though, but you're pretending that someone would be obligated to fight by whatever rules you want to setup when they're facing a collective, which is of course silly. Crazy to think that we'd risk all of this just to snatch Ukraine from Russia's sphere.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Jul 23 2024 09:45am

I’m 95% with that statement. US tax payers are paying for supplies. I don’t think China has any involvement with Russian side tho.

You wouldn't be arguing in favor of starting world war 3 if ukraine was winning.