Quote (Ghot @ May 28 2018 02:24pm)

I wonder which EU exit country would have the funniest name?

Frexit? Spexit? Irexit?

Quote (dro94 @ 28 May 2018 15:37)

Frexit because it's the only one of those 3 that might happen

Quote (zarkadon @ May 28 2018 02:51pm)

Yeah, the most pro-EU president in Europe is going to take France out of the union...

Quote (ampoo @ May 28 2018 03:40pm)

italy messing around and making the currency or possibly the whole EU collapse could actually be a blessing in disguise

the whole thing will come down anyway

by the way, someone should tell these guys in italy that they have piled up over 400 billion in debts through the target 2 system, which they effectively owe the federal german bank

you wanna get out? time to pay motherfuckers

Quote (zarkadon @ 28 May 2018 11:35)

Yes, the documents exist. One of them is the "EnfoCATs" document that was partially leaked: https://estaticos.elperiodico.com/resources/pdf/8/2/1512468377228.pdf?_ga=2.28083130.726508289.1527502064-1385701184.1525980315

http://www.diarioinformacion.com/nacional/2017/12/21/informe-enfocats-recogia-deseo-violencia/1970737.html
https://www.elperiodico.com/es/politica/20171205/enfocats-documento-junqueras-prision-6475171
http://www.elmundo.es/espana/2017/10/10/59dca80ee2704e0d0f8b45d7.html
https://www.elnacional.cat/es/politica/enfocats-tribunal-supremo-junqueras_218481_102.html

It includes the scenario of violent civil resistance (not necessarily to police intervention, but also government actions, like triggering article 155). It also mentions plans to bait the spanish state and police into causing scenes that they could manipulate for propaganda purposes.

Don't forget that Puigdemont himself admits there "some" violence initiated by the separatist side... but he claims he can't be held responsible for it, and that the spanish justice system should prosecute those individuals and not him: http://www.elmundo.es/espana/2018/04/02/5ac24b51ca4741fc288b45dc.html

The documents were taken from his vicepresident Junqueras. Obviously Puigdemont knew about them. The question is if he can be LEGALLY held accountable of the violent consequences of his plan (which already detailed that possibility in several documents, like the EnfoCATS one) through the charge of rebellion, despite not being physically involved in the instances of violence. Like I said, the law is sadly not very specific, which opens a lot of room for interpretation. This is why the centre-left party PSOE has promised to change the law to specifically say that authorities can be accused of rebellion if they try to eliminate the constitutional order, regardless of them doing so in a violent way that physically involved the rebel leaders (like a military coup) or an administrative way (like the separatist government did): https://www.larazon.es/espana/el-psoe-promovera-la-reforma-del-delito-de-rebelion-en-el-codigo-penal-DM18365170

Quote (dro94 @ 28 May 2018 16:48)

Debt to GDP ratio of 1.3, getting closer to Greece's at 1.8. No chance they'll pay tbh

Quote (fender @ 28 May 2018 19:59)

so many assumptions and speculations in this, so many unproven theories and just assuming the worst when it comes to your political opposition.

and that's coming from someone who holds the position that putin might NOT be responsible for all the political arrests and murders of journalists and opposition leaders in russia - simply because no court found (or will ever find) him guilty...

completely ridiculous, if these documents say what you suggest, why didn't the prosecutor refer to them to get puigdemont extradited? or did he, and the german court simply had a more objective and evidence based approach than assuming he could possibly be guilty of 'violent rebellion' based on some documents found on someone else, authored by someone else, describing one of hundreds of possible scenarios that never happened?

again, the overwhelming majority of violence was commited BY spain - and not against those evil separatist leaders, but against civilians - and you keep ignoring that part, but not a single person was charged for THAT violence. however, political arrests followed based on the POSSIBILITY those people could be responsible for the odd raised chair against the marauding police force mercilessly attacking women and elderly - what a 'democracy'...