Quote (IceMage @ Oct 1 2020 08:25pm)
I don't think Wallace asking Trump that question is a left-wing framing. Trump has white supremacists and militia groups who support him, he's waffled on condemning those groups in the past, he's amped up the situation with his rhetoric and tweets. The question deserved a clear answer... Trump didn't give one. Now there's a bunch of coverage about his terrible answer.
I agree in general that there's many issues where the fact-based media frames things with a liberal bias. There's ways to adequately handle that. I don't see many right-wingers who are able to counter it effectively. The go-to strategy is whining, and that works with the base, but it doesn't bring new people to your side.
First, let's differentiate between groups like the Proud Boys, organized militias, and white supremacist organizations. Second, let's differentiate between white supremacist organizations and incel / 8chan mass shootings. White supremacists have been specifically called out and repudiated by Trump in the past. They represent a fringe of a fringe in American politics, and can hardly get 10 people together to staff a rally. The idea that Trump is secretly courting their vote is asinine; it's quite honestly an insult to our intelligence. The internet warriors are definitely a threat to go off, but again, Trump has never done anything except decry the loss of life in these instances.
Now we get to the Proud Boys and other organized groups that support Trump. It's an odd white supremacist organization that has a black-Cuban American looking man at its head, but perhaps the times really are changing. These organizations do not appear to be fundamentally racist, and their contribution to our current predicament is a few street fights in-between massive, coordinated left-wing violence against the state.
With that as context, let's revisit the scene from the debate. When asked, Trump has no problem agreeing to repudiate white supremacy, although the question itself is incredibly odd given the timing. Biden interrupts him with a Proud Boys reference. Biden conflates the Proud Boys with the violence his supporters are causing. It is simply false. Biden conflates the Proud Boys with white supremacy, which is also false. Trump moves on from agreeing to repudiate white supremacists and delivers the "stand back and stand by" line in reference to the Proud Boys.
Personally, I think Trump needs to be faster on the uptake with these things, but the question is being framed in such a way as to conflate for the viewer left-wing and right-wing violence. If we had an epidemic of right-wing violence on our streets, that would make a whole lot of sense, but we do not.
Of course there are ways to handle that. If there's bias in media, you expose the bias. The media establishment likes to whine that Trump has destroyed trust in media, but they've done that to themselves. Trump but pointed it out. The media have no clothes.
Quote (IceMage @ Oct 1 2020 08:25pm)
There's this talking point that before Trump, Republicans were a group of scared cowards who would never take on the left and the media... and I've not seen good evidence that's ever been the case. There's also this idea that because Trump won and ushered in control of government, everything he did is supposed to be justified and helpful politically. That's also false. Trump didn't win because he's a nasty person to the Democrats and the media... he won in spite of it.
It was years ago and I didn't follow the election that closely, so I have no idea if your characterizations of Romney are accurate. To me, you seem to be implying that Romney didn't embrace nativist rhetoric and the dark underbelly of the Republican party... and that he should've done so. Maybe McCain should've been open to the old woman at the town hall calling Obama an Arab?
I support leaders who bring out the best in the American people, not the worst.
I have already provided examples to this effect. Romney allowed the media to bully him on sex and immigration. 4 years later, Jeb Bush bought in completely, and tried to run a campaign on illegal immigration as an "act of love".
Trump did not win by being a nasty person, but he did win by attacking Democrats and the media head on. When we pretend that the media is "fact-based", as you do, it gives them power and credibility. Trump's popularization of the term "fake news" completely took that away. As I said, the emperor was shown to have no clothes.
Quote (IceMage @ Oct 1 2020 08:25pm)
There's numerous ways Trump has influenced politics... I think expanding the realm of thought on policy is pretty far down on the list. He's further radicalized 1/3 of the country... the Republican party is dumber, meaner, and crazier. The Democratic party is more radical. Trust in institutions has cratered. Those are the lasting effects, not tariffs and building a wall.
Half of the country doesn't distrust media because Donald Trump says to distrust them. They don't distrust federal bureaucrats because Trump says they're corrupt. They distrust the media because they see the media selectively print stories that advance chosen narratives. They distrust bureaucrats because they see Clinton lie to the FBI and get away completely unscathed, while a liar in Flynn gets crucified. The media bought into the liberal narrative that we were on a fixed course towards a more and more liberal United States. Trump destroyed that narrative, and the left dropped all subtlety and went on the attack.
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