Quote (bogie160 @ 18 Dec 2022 05:27)

Sovereignty isn't an objective science. You could very well make a revanchist argument for Russian control of Finland, Finnish control of Karelia, or German control of their historical lands in East Prussia. You could argue that sovereignty of the Western United States alternatively belongs to either the Natives or Mexico. And you could argue for a Celtic war of reconquest to reclaim the entirety of Western Europe. As someone of Celtic descent, I'm particularly disposed to the last.

Was the American Civil war the "War of Northern Aggression" that some southerners claim? I understand their argument, even if I don't have much sympathy for it. The same is true of China. I understand why China wants unification with Taiwan, just as I understand why the Taiwanese don't want to be unified with their much poorer neighbor. My sympathies in this case are with the Taiwanese, just as they are with the Kurds, but whereas we can't do much about the Kurdish situation, we're under no obligation to betray the Taiwanese to the PRC.

Quote (bogie160 @ Dec 17 2022 04:27pm)

Sovereignty isn't an objective science. You could very well make a revanchist argument for Russian control of Finland, Finnish control of Karelia, or German control of their historical lands in East Prussia. You could argue that sovereignty of the Western United States alternatively belongs to either the Natives or Mexico. And you could argue for a Celtic war of reconquest to reclaim the entirety of Western Europe. As someone of Celtic descent, I'm particularly disposed to the last.

Was the American Civil war the "War of Northern Aggression" that some southerners claim? I understand their argument, even if I don't have much sympathy for it. The same is true of China. I understand why China wants unification with Taiwan, just as I understand why the Taiwanese don't want to be unified with their much poorer neighbor. My sympathies in this case are with the Taiwanese, just as they are with the Kurds, but whereas we can't do much about the Kurdish situation, we're under no obligation to betray the Taiwanese to the PRC.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Dec 17 2022 04:37pm)

I wouldn't use the word betray. But if betrayal is the word I think the US is starting to do that now. As a matter of fact they already started doing it in 2016 or 2017.

And before 2016 / 2017. The US kinda " betrayed " Taiwan in the 1979 U.S.–P.R.C. Joint Communiqué

All I can say is , not in an offensive manner , but Old Habits die hard....

Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 17 2022 04:37pm)

We have as much obligation to the Taiwanese as we do to the Kurds, both being none really. It's almost like we create these arbitrary obligations which time after time follow that if statement I made above.

Quote (bogie160 @ 18 Dec 2022 07:20)

The obligation we owe our immediate family is greater than that owed to extended family, and greater still to that owed to a friend. We owe Taiwan far more than we owe Ukraine, I would say, and thankfully it's in our good interest to help them out.



I don't know that I'm quite that jaded. We should strive for a culture where we feel obligation to old allies, and where we're willing to suffer at least somewhat for them. It's good fortune that it's in our interests to help Taiwan.