Quote (Pisior @ Dec 14 2022 08:09pm)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Book_(Muammar_Gaddafi)

a great book.

Quote (ferdia @ Dec 14 2022 02:47pm)

For those of you that dont click on links, it recently came to light widespread in main stream media that China was operating "police" stations around the globe, and that these offices had been used to intimidate Chinese dissidents and criminal suspects abroad into returning to China, causing increased scrutiny and investigations of the stations by the governments of host countries. (i copied a bit from the link).

not sure of the relevance. we all know (or should know) that the chinese government is very controlling of those it deems a problem. This is a snapshot of Chinese policy, but is not a snapshot of why the US and China are in conflict.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 14 2022 08:08pm)

Your post suggests that because the MSM is creating a narrative, that the US has made China its enemy?
I assume by the US, you mean the US government?

I would argue that while being intrinsically linked, China and US have been economic rivals for a long time. Therefore the US government has been acutely aware of the rise of China and also of its own decline, particularly in manufacturing.

In terms of the South China Sea and China's increasing presence there. It is inevitable that China and the US would become adverse to one and other. The US has guaranteed the safety of global shipping since WW2. China increasing its focus and presence in the SCS has an impact on that status quo.

There are numerous vectors worth mentioning in the China US relations. The realm of social media is one. The anecdotal but very literal "Trade War". Bans on providing China US chip technology. Chinas belt and road initiative and investment in developing countries infrastructure, and the effect that will have on the current status quo.

I'm not sure that I would say the US has made China its enemy.
However the Chinese communist party has made it very clear, they act in the benefit of Chinese people. They expect Chinese people around the world to act in the interest of the Chinese state.

The US government will also act in the interest of US citizens. That is manifesting itself in the MSM and in the previously mentioned vectors.


I think in a broader sense state actors like Putin are pushing towards a cold war style reality. One with an authoritarian bloc and a democratic bloc.
With the US moving more towards isolationism, it will be interesting how things might play out.

Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 14 2022 08:33pm)

the question is why is china in conflict with so many of it's neighbors as well as western nations? your thoughts on this ferdia?

i'd think it's because while all countries try to influence one another in some fashion, authoritarian regimes tend to go about it rather clumsily with sabre rattling when they don't get their way https://www.businessinsider.com/china-threat-to-shoot-down-pelosis-plane-if-she-visits-taiwan-2022-7

Quote (ferdia @ 15 Dec 2022 04:53)

tentatively agree. I think Russia is pretty much irrelevant right now noting Putin's Russia is looking like a lame duck. If there was a misconception that my post was inferring that MSM was creating this conflict I would argue that your post has simplified my initial position into words that everyone can understand (and thanks). My own view is that it looks like we are heading towards a confrontation, or rather worsening relations. whether that results in a shooting war between the two remains to be seen, but in my opinion it does look like China is the New Russia and that both countries will be at odds for the rest of my lifetime (i hope to live another half century and more ok).



deleted first sentance, on which i would be tentative, quoted what i agree with 100%.

Quote (ferdia @ Dec 14 2022 08:53pm)

tentatively agree. I think Russia is pretty much irrelevant right now noting Putin's Russia is looking like a lame duck. If there was a misconception that my post was inferring that MSM was creating this conflict I would argue that your post has simplified my initial position into words that everyone can understand (and thanks). My own view is that it looks like we are heading towards a confrontation, or rather worsening relations. whether that results in a shooting war between the two remains to be seen, but in my opinion it does look like China is the New Russia and that both countries will be at odds for the rest of my lifetime (i hope to live another half century and more ok).

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 14 2022 09:05pm)

Would agree and add that Russia remains relevant only because of its nuclear arsenal and hydrocarbon resources.
Without the nukes the Poles would probably have leveled Moscow already. That is obviously anecdotal but not unrealistic based on recent events.
Russia will become increasingly dependent on China. China will be burdened by that obligation. And conflicted in its dependence on the US and EU markets for its good.

I can foresee a world, perhaps into the next century, where there are emerging markets for China's products in Africa, South America and the Middle East.
Its also possible that other nations in Asia can affect China's competitiveness and monopoly on manufacturing.


Yes and no.
No in that militarily China is decades behind the US. Therefore it won't seek to engage when the current trend is already in their favor economically, if it in fact is.
They are not behind in all technology but in the time it takes to build up the level of hardware, the experience and the global military network of the US.
China is barely a regional military power* that actually has a global potential.

*proven by the non-conformity of Taiwan and current containment of China inside the first island chain.

Yes in that they are already engaged in an economic war.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Dec 14 2022 09:15pm)

Are you serious?