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Sep 12 2022 03:01pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ Sep 12 2022 03:42pm)
I said they didn't target civilian infrastructure.

You link me to a story about the shelling of ZNPP.

I point out Ukraine shelled that, as they themselves admitted and boasted about.

You said OK, but there were Russians there.

See the problem, here? Do you think this sort of schizophrenic way of arguing is convincing, or is it just how your brain works?


I linked you a story about shelling a thermal plant in Kryvyi Rih. That was in June.

June was before this current offensive, and they targeted civilian infrastructure. Read everything again for comprehension before pretending I'm the one with a loose wire here.
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Sep 12 2022 03:07pm
Quote (Djunior @ Sep 12 2022 03:55pm)
The report isn't bashing Ukraine and isn't anti Ukraine, it points out Ukraine's military is actively using civilian infrastructure.

You should settle down and read the report first. Probably a couple times.

And accept that it is what it is. Ukraine aint the angels you perceive.

The country is corrupt, full of nationalists and extremists which is all well documented before the war but all of that magically disappeared under the rug as well. What coincidence :rolleyes:


Didn't even bother responding to the point. I understand. If I had said something that incredibly dumb I would also avoid trying to defend it
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Sep 12 2022 03:14pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ Sep 12 2022 12:55pm)
As to this Ukraine report from Amnesty, it's very clear that the reason the report was so heavily attacked isn't because of some methodological error, it's because it's simply not allowable in 'respectable' mainstream publications and NGOs to say that we're backing some absolutely disgusting people in Ukraine.

Same reason that right up until Feb 2022 it was possible to report that Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, that they're the poorest in Europe due to that corruption, that Azov and Right Sector are straight up swastika-tatted Nazis, but once the crisis began those same claims became "Russian disinformation" and anyone saying it was a Putin stooge.

Amnesty forgot it's role, at some point. Like Human Rights Watch or Transparency International or all the rest, they exist to provide post-hoc rationalizations for liberals desperate to know what makes them the good guys in every situation.

Never forget that it was Amnesty who 'fact-checked' the Nayirah testimony and declared it true.


So you think Putin is on an anti Nazi liberation crusade also? chopstickz?
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Sep 12 2022 03:15pm
Quote (Santara @ Sep 12 2022 02:01pm)
I linked you a story about shelling a thermal plant in Kryvyi Rih. That was in June.

June was before this current offensive, and they targeted civilian infrastructure. Read everything again for comprehension before pretending I'm the one with a loose wire here.

The Kryvyi Rih power plant wasn't taken offline. The article says operations continued normally. That's because Russia did not try to take it out. We now see what happens when they try to take out a power plant: They drop a Kalibr right into the guts of it and it goes offline.

ZNPP, on the other hand, is down to a single operating reactor, and just two days ago that had to stop temporarily because the Ukrainians have continued to shell it.

I'm going to stop responding, here, because I see how pointless it is arguing with someone like you. The simple truth of this matter, I'll repeat this last time, is that Russia has allowed all critical civilian infrastructure in Ukraine to operate normally throughout the entire duration of this conflict. At any time of their choosing, as the strikes yesterday show, they have the ability to take everything offline. Clearly and obviously, the only correct conclusion is that Russia doesn't target civilian infrastructure, until yesterday, still on a very limited scale.

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Sep 12 2022 03:19pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ Sep 12 2022 02:14pm)
So you think Putin is on an anti Nazi liberation crusade also? chopstickz?

I've gone back and looked at some of that guys posts. We clearly have different motivations and grasps of English. Get real.

But here we see the exact point I was making - up until Feb 2022, you could read that Ukraine had a problem with Nazis throughout their defense establishment in mainstream outlets like Vice, CNN, WaPo, etc. But now, despite the clarity of the issue becoming more acute as we've seen hundreds of photos of Ukrainian POWs covered with swastikas and black suns, if you mention it you are dismissed as a Putin apologist or somesuch.

Childish.
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Sep 12 2022 03:30pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ Sep 12 2022 02:19pm)
I've gone back and looked at some of that guys posts. We clearly have different motivations and grasps of English. Get real.

But here we see the exact point I was making - up until Feb 2022, you could read that Ukraine had a problem with Nazis throughout their defense establishment in mainstream outlets like Vice, CNN, WaPo, etc. But now, despite the clarity of the issue becoming more acute as we've seen hundreds of photos of Ukrainian POWs covered with swastikas and black suns, if you mention it you are dismissed as a Putin apologist or somesuch.

Childish.


No there were clearly some white power idiots within the ranks of the Ukrainian army etc. I think the problem is the general public cannot take complex information and RU has its fair share, so does the US.
Using it as some sort of justification for invasion is what most people can't deal with. Or maybe china could invade us due to Oath Keepers? Look how many of them are in the military/police tree? AND plenty are racially motivated.
I think the subjects should stay separated.. Ukraine has "Nazi's" within it.. It's still not a valid reason for attacking them.
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Sep 12 2022 03:51pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ Sep 12 2022 02:14pm)
So you think Putin is on an anti Nazi liberation crusade also? chopstickz?


a little bit. He's on a crusade to exterminate the remnant Nazis in Ukraine which are supported by the state, and have been committing acts of terror in Eastern Ukraine since 2013. I think he's smart enough to know the state of Ukraine as a whole is not Nazi.
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Sep 12 2022 04:07pm
Quote (kusotarre1 @ Sep 12 2022 04:15pm)
The Kryvyi Rih power plant wasn't taken offline. The article says operations continued normally. That's because Russia did not try to take it out. We now see what happens when they try to take out a power plant: They drop a Kalibr right into the guts of it and it goes offline.

ZNPP, on the other hand, is down to a single operating reactor, and just two days ago that had to stop temporarily because the Ukrainians have continued to shell it.

I'm going to stop responding, here, because I see how pointless it is arguing with someone like you. The simple truth of this matter, I'll repeat this last time, is that Russia has allowed all critical civilian infrastructure in Ukraine to operate normally throughout the entire duration of this conflict. At any time of their choosing, as the strikes yesterday show, they have the ability to take everything offline. Clearly and obviously, the only correct conclusion is that Russia doesn't target civilian infrastructure, until yesterday, still on a very limited scale.


Failing to knock it out of commission doesn't ameliorate the orc's conduct. You have no idea what Russia did or did not TRY to do. All we have is what they DID do.

They "drop a Kalibr right into the guts" ...and commit war crimes by targeting civilian infrastructure.

If you think the Ukrainians are trying to shell ZNPP and set off a nuclear holocaust on their own soil, rather than trying to shell the orcs occupying the area, we aren't having an honest discussion.

And Ukraine has continued to allow Russian pipelines to deliver gas through their territory. Funny how no one ever worries about those being hit. And lastly, I really can't be asked to accept your summary dismissal of attacks on rail stations as being automatically legitimate militarily, so yeah, they've been targeting civilian infrastructure all along. At least as early as the Toshka-U attack on Kramatorsk, much less the cyber attempts to knock out the grid.
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Sep 12 2022 04:15pm
Quote (Santara @ Sep 12 2022 03:07pm)
the orc's conduct.


shell the orcs occupying the area,

Knock it off with the racism or you'll get banned just like the last guy who was calling Russians slurs on here.
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