Quote (proccy @ Jul 6 2020 09:44pm)

back to this blasse stuffing of words into the mouth and complete missing of the point. i don't recall having said that in the slightest :P

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 6 2020 09:44pm)

That's a mischaracterization. The real debate went like this:

Handcuffs: X
Everyone Else: So you're saying Y?
Handcuffs: No, Y is not the same as X
Everyone Else: No, in fact, Y follows directly from X
Handcuffs: No, when I say X I mean just X
Everyone Else: But in practice, it would be impossible for Y to not follow from X. Also, those activists advocating for X are openly striving for Y.
Handcuffs: It would still in theory be possible to have X without Y.
Everyone Else: But not in practice, particularly when the public proponents of X have no interest in X-without-Y since Y is their actual end goal.
Handcuffs: *autistic screeching*

Quote (Handcuffs @ Jul 6 2020 09:51pm)

Here, I've taken the time, because I'm a petty homosexual, to draw a very easy diagram:

https://i.imgur.com/DHzl1Va.png

So even if ICE were completely non-existent, fully abolished, not-replaced, obliterated out of human existence, we'd still have immigration policy AND enforcement through CBP and USCIS.

Quote (proccy @ Jul 6 2020 09:50pm)

i never said ICE is absolutely necessary, either. man you are a piss lot :P (sorry guildie)

the point i was making is really eluding you guys and I don't understand why. maybe I can further clarify my personal position by simply saying : Reform of immigration law enforcement should be very seriously considered. Abolition of law enforcement is a modern communist revolutionary's pipe dream

if that helps

Quote (theCrossbones @ Jul 6 2020 09:54pm)

I think that's closer to his thought.. *shouldn't speak for him.
Part of the enforcement that is hated is ICE. Can we abolish it? and fill in the blank ___________________
Might go a long way for mending bridges etc.

Quote (Thor123422 @ 7 Jul 2020 06:47)

Even in this very charitable take on the subject, Handcuffs is still right lol. There's ways to enforce immigration policy without a specific division dedicated to its enforcement.

Quote

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) engages in immigration enforcement actions to prevent unlawful entry into the United States and to apprehend and repatriate aliens who have violated or failed to comply with U.S. immigration laws. Primary responsibility for the enforcement of immigration law within DHS rests with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). CBP enforces immigration laws at and between the ports of entry, ICE is responsible for interior enforcement and for detention and removal operations, and USCIS adjudicates applications and petitions for immigration and naturalization benefits.

Quote (Handcuffs @ Jul 6 2020 09:59pm)

A continuation of my limitless capacity for being petty. Here's a quote from the Department of Homeland Security which affirms that immigration enforcement is DIVIDED AMONG SEVERAL DIFFERENT AGENCIES AND NOT ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON THE EXISTENCE OF A SINGLE ONE SUCH AS ICE:



Source: https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/enforcement-actions

Quote (proccy @ Jul 6 2020 10:00pm)

i don't believe anyone here is debating that, yet you keep going on as if we were?

Quote (proccy @ Jul 6 2020 04:41pm)

Abolish ICE = Abolishing immigration policy. Which is the dumbest thing I've heard in at least 24 hours in pard

Quote (Handcuffs @ Jul 6 2020 10:00pm)

:bonk:

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 6 2020 11:57pm)

It is possible in theory, but unrealistic in practice. Just like I said, lol.

Even if I sound like a broken record: those people who are advocating "abolish ICE" are not interested in going back to the immigration policy and border regime of the pre-2003 time - what they want is to make the border (significantly) softer than it currently is, softer than it ever was in previous decades.