Quote (Skinned @ Apr 23 2020 11:29am)

Unironically calling somebody obtuse while being obtuse lol.

A+

Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 23 2020 11:37am)

Mental illness/issues, economics, etc. causes suicides not owning guns. No one ever woke up and said i have a gun and because i have a gun ill commit suicide. In the most direct sense we can say guns cause the death because someone used it to take their own life but it's an obtuse understanding of what the word causes means.

I care very little about gun rights it's like the last on a list of issue i care about but to link causality in the way we're talking about is obtuse.

Quote (Net @ Apr 23 2020 11:39am)

Many people are mentally ill and not treated due to the stigma that comes with mental health. So, in reality, there are many cases involving guns that are due to someone who may be mental health and not diagnosed.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 23 2020 11:40am)

Right, it's the underlying mental illness, depression, stress, whatever other feeling that is the causation, guns are just the most efficient tool to make it happen.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Apr 23 2020 10:40am)

Right, it's the underlying mental illness, depression, stress, whatever other feeling that is the causation, guns are just the most efficient tool to make it happen.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 23 2020 10:56am)

Yep, gun suicide attempts are a small minority but successful suicides involving guns are a large majority.

However, that doesn't really get at the point Skinned was making. If you care about life then the fact that restricting access to guns greatly reduces the chances of a successful suicide is something you have to grapple with.

Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 23 2020 10:59am)

most people who arent successful try again, generally with a more efficient thing. we'd need to control for people who try non-gun methods, fail, and never try any other method again to really quantify the toll of the effectiveness of guns.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 23 2020 11:05am)

Not really. If they make an attempt, fail, then retry with a gun, that still means gun access is a risk factor to successful suicide attempts.

Quote (thesnipa @ Apr 23 2020 12:32pm)

if they fail and try again with jumping off of a 30 story building it's more effective than a gun. the risk factor isn't 2 stage, it's factorial.

and in any case this premise is deeply flawed, failed suicide attempts have as much to do with the person not really wanting to die in as many cases as failing due to the chosen method.

if u "want do die" you slit your wrists 5 minutes before a loved one comes home, if you want to die in earnest u use a gun. so failed attempts aren't truly equivalent, no one who tries a gun is on the fence.

Quote (Skinned @ Apr 23 2020 12:57pm)

There's a great website that has a lot of data on suicides including which attempts end in injury, how successful certain plans are vs others, etc.

I'm not linking it here though lol. Its an alarming site tbh.

People seem to think overdosing is a good way when its not. I don't know how many people I've treated who have hung themselves and fucked up the knot or the supporting beam broke or whatever, ligature marks aroud their neck. Drink bleach? Wicked indigestion and GI problems. Drinking pine sol will shut down your kidneys in a few days but we will just hit ya with a few rounds of dialysis.

One guy was going to jump off a bridge and changed his mind, then fell climbing down. He was all fucked up with contusions everywhere.
Poor guy :(

The worse suicide attempt maybe was a drunk guy who went crazy with zip ties, tied them on his arms and legs, wrists, connected together then around his neck...had to cut into him to get beneath the bands to cut them off. Stupid game stupid prize edition.

People don't come in after they impulsively shoot themselves. I treated people who have after the fact that were horribly disabled and disfigured.