Quote (fender @ 12 Jul 2018 20:47)
the problem with your 'argument', dear am-poo, is that i already agreed we probably should be paying more - but i also stated that a fix percentage of GDP target is a very idiotic and american way to go about it since it prioritises a budget goal over achieving strategic requirements. i also criticised that much of the real and perceived threats to NATO stem from america's aggressive world policing and war mongering, hence they should not complain about the financial burden that comes with it. after all, it is THEIR companies (mainly fossil fuel / mining / 'defence') that reap the main benefits of it. again, it's not europe's fault that americans keep electing politicians owned by the industries that push for military conflicts. just consider this: due to our geographical situation and the fact that america just closes its borders, WE have to deal with the waves of immigrants, so where is our compensation for that? i don't see you or any other member of the trump cult complaining about the financial drawbacks of that, and how the lack of american solidarity is endangering our alliance. strange...
you correctly mentioned that this has been a source of conflict and negotiations for quite a while now - and if you were able to see the world a bit more nuanced you'd realise that many, if not most people aren't saying 'but... but trump is wrong, europe shouldn't pay more', but rather that trump's bull in a china shop behaviour is entirely counter-productive and completely inadequate. if you really think that his retarded accusations loaded with falsehoods, lies, propaganda, and the financial interests of his donors are somehow magically solving the issue and stabilising the alliance you're not only mistaken but probably not completely sane anymore. putin is probably celebrating right now about the massive division in our trans-atlantic partnership, and only a complete fool would claim this is europe's fault, that it's europe that has been antagonising america every possible way...
how could an even halfway reasonable person claim the real problem threatening nato is that many european members are somewhat hesitant with their military budget (after all we have populations that are a bit more civilised, we like our healthcare and affordable college, and we don't just support every war), but trump publicly and aggressively attacking his closest allies and questioning nato's relevance is completely fine? i get that uninformed simpletons who grew up in a borderline jingoistic society over there would fall for such narratives, but europeans living in free and enlightened societies? this really is a cult, there is no way around it...
oh dont get me wrong, we shouldnt discuss the 2% too much
i am sure not even trump would complain about 1,9%, if we contributed enough
however we have to spend, what is necessary and right now we would need at least that much for a few years to restore the army to what i would consider normal
and if its 2,3% to have our ships, tanks and aircraft combat ready, properly train and equip our men and women, then we have to do it as a sovereign state, that has the obligation to defend our territory
i am last guy to not heavily criticise american warmongering, its not part of the NATO agreements and america would do well to deal with their ridiculous defensive budget
it does not change the fact that we are freeloaders
trumps behaviour is ridiculous, but i still support it
why? its the only way to make idiots like merkel listen at all, its the only way to attract enough attention to this problem
the presidents before have tried "would you please spend more, my dear angela?" method already and zero fucks were given
its really sad that it has to be this way, but otherwise we the "we will spend 2%......someday, cya next time donald" status quo would continue
if our societies are to remain "free and enlightened" we have to defend them (you really do america and its people dont you?)
it is europe's fault and ours alone, we have caused this mess in the first place
its typical german behavior nowadays to attack the guy, who points out mistakes, and not the one the one making it (tucholsky was right after all)
nice job bringing the migrant debate into this and while its a fact that american warmongering has heavily contributed to it your thinking is absolutely ridiculous
we had all the chances, opportunities, laws and the obligation to send these people away, end of story