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Jan 25 2017 03:07pm
This is why I hate this man. Shame on him, I don't wish many bad things but I hope this guy gets cardiac arrest while he tries to get his dick up his supermodel slave.
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Jan 25 2017 03:25pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 25 2017 03:34pm)
ok lets ask a simple question. do you think we do or do not need to drastically reduce CO2 emissions? that's about as simple of a question as i can ask to judge whether this even bears fruit. don't over-complicate it by semantically taking shots at drastic or reduce or whatever else, just answer in a generality.

If its a simple yes/no its no.

Without a better replacement i think it will do more harm than good.

Extended edition via reverse psychology:

...

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, The Real answer is that its undetermined and I dont know. I dont think anyone does for certain.

i will also add its important to define our terms(what constitutes 'need' in this context? need for what? to survive? unlikely. to emulate cavemen as the green party would like? surely.) and recognize that its complicated and undetermined.

Runaway/Catastrophic climate change is not the consensus. If you don't believe it why would we "need" to drastically reduce emissions? Is it not physically possible to live with effects? well by definition it would be.
Could the effects of drastically handicapping our energy be worse than climate change? and make us more susceptible to it if climate change continues even with reduction in emissions?
Is merely slowing climate change inherently better than helping the people on earth now and in the foreseeable short-mid term future? Is it better than developing the technology that could benefit future generations?

Another important variable is when? Right now? well it didn't happen by the time i wrote right now so we're screwed if the answer was yes.
100 years from now? idk. i'm not omniscient.

I have a lot more where that came from running through my head, but ill cut it short cuz i know you were looking for simpleness to abandon ship after you hear 'no'.

So, Need? No.
Could it be preferable at some point? possibly.
Do I support forced drastic reductions right now? Hell no.
Would I support more development of energy like nuclear that has lower emissions? definitely.
Would I be against initiating coercion against people who want to reduce emissions in their own lifestyles? You know it.

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Jan 25 2017 03:26pm
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Jan 25 2017 03:31pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ 25 Jan 2017 21:34)
yes yes blah blah, you are a child. i get it
lets move on.


you pretend you want to but really you can't move on, can you? just like you can't admit your mistakes and your flawed reasoning and logic. you just need to have the last word so you can tell yourself you "won" the argument, right? guess what, no one is interested in our petty little fight, no one is reading all this so you can stop playing for whatever audience you're imagining. you aren't even interested in the issue, your only concern is coming across as superior.

that's why you won't comment on the lack of transparency and the donations although i repeatedly asked you about it. no, you rather ignore these inconvenient questions altogether.

like i said, you can call me a child, a liar, or stupid all you want. in return i will call you what i see: a dishonest and holier-than-thou trump shill, who tries so hard to come across as intelligent, but just can't hide his rage and arrogance when called out for his bs.

awaiting your angry response, boastfully deluding yourself into believing you totally "dismantled" me and "left me for dead intellectually" and other hilarious shit like that (actually looking forward to it somewhat, that stuff was comedy gold), calling me more names while dodging the topic, followed by advice to "move on"...

Quote (GuyLadouche @ 25 Jan 2017 21:41)
can u not realize tho, that thru the fact you and I both know that he held stocks in certain companies, that there is transparency in that? Average people like you and I can clearly see where conflicts of interest may arise, the media also knows this.

As before in past administrations, I would say some may have suspected conflicts, and there is evidence certainly to show this, but the vast majority didn't really know where. I think vast majorities had no idea what was going on with conflicts, and they were MUCH more covered up. With President Trump, there has been speculation since before day 1, as to where conflicts could arise, and thru this, there is transparency.

Even if he doesn't release certain documents to public, which is not out of the possibility mind you, there is still transparency. You just need to look past the fact that he has not released documents yet.

I'm not saying there is ZERO possible chance of conflicts, but he is much more transparent than anyone in office in recent decades. This is my opinion


sry, mate... i can tell you have a pure heart and probably genuinely believe in trump and want to give him a fair chance, but what you just said doesn't even begin to make any sense... the whole drama here is about the fact that NO ONE in the puplic KNOWS if he still holds stock while he signs executive orders that clearly benefit the company of which we KNOW he at the very least HELD stock in. so even if you mistake knowing about that for transparency, this "transparency" has no value when it does not PREVENT such decisions, which would be the whole point of ACTUAL transparency!
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Jan 25 2017 03:33pm
Quote (fender @ Jan 25 2017 04:31pm)
you pretend you want to but really you can't move on, can you? just like you can't admit your mistakes and your flawed reasoning and logic. you just need to have the last word so you can tell yourself you "won" the argument, right? guess what, no one is interested in our petty little fight, no one is reading all this so you can stop playing for whatever audience you're imagining. you aren't even interested in the issue, your only concern is coming across as superior.

that's why you won't comment on the lack of transparency and the donations although i repeatedly asked you about it. no, you rather ignore these inconvenient questions altogether.

like i said, you can call me a child, a liar, or stupid all you want. in return i will call you what i see: a dishonest and holier-than-thou trump shill, who tries so hard to come across as intelligent, but just can't hide his rage and arrogance when called out for his bs.

awaiting your angry response, boastfully deluding yourself into believing you totally "dismantled" me and "left me for dead intellectually" and other hilarious shit like that (actually looking forward to it somewhat, that stuff was comedy gold), calling me more names while dodging the topic, followed by advice to "move on"...


would you stfu for real already? my god.
You were wrong and said a LOT of untrue things. now you still wont drop it, piling on the conspiracies of why you think i didnt do x y and z. You are a crazy person.
Im seriously done with you. go away.

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Jan 25 2017 03:33pm
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Jan 25 2017 03:33pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Jan 25 2017 03:25pm)
If its a simple yes/no its no.

Without a better replacement i think it will do more harm than good.

Extended edition via reverse psychology:

...

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, The Real answer is that its undetermined and I dont know. I dont think anyone does for certain.

i will also add its important to define our terms(what constitutes 'need' in this context? need for what? to survive? unlikely. to emulate cavemen as the green party would like? surely.) and recognize that its complicated and undetermined.

Runaway/Catastrophic climate change is not the consensus. If you don't believe it why would we "need" to drastically reduce emissions? Is it not physically possible to live with effects? well by definition it would be.
Could the effects of drastically handicapping our energy be worse than climate change? and make us more susceptible to it if climate change continues even with reduction in emissions?
Is merely slowing climate change inherently better than helping the people on earth now and in the foreseeable short-mid term future? Is it better than developing the technology that could benefit future generations?

Another important variable is when? Right now? well it didn't happen by the time i wrote right now so we're screwed if the answer was yes.
100 years from now? idk. i'm not omniscient.

I have a lot more where that came from running through my head, but ill cut it short cuz i know you were looking for simpleness to abandon ship after you hear 'no'.

So, Need? No.
Could it be preferable at some point? possibly.
Do I support forced drastic reductions right now? Hell no.
Would I support more development of energy like nuclear that has lower emissions? definitely.
Would I be against initiating coercion against people who want to reduce emissions in their own lifestyles? You know it.


I feel that the oceans will swell in the next century+ and displace millions. potentially billions. i dont even think we will be able to do much to stop it, only prevent some of it. our stances are too far apart to have a discussion. no hard feelings, good day.
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Jan 25 2017 03:34pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ 25 Jan 2017 17:33)
would you stfu for real already? my god.
You were wrong and said a LOT of untrue things. now you still wont drop it, piling on the conspiracies of why you think i didnt do x y and z. You are a crazy person.
Im seriously done with you. go away.

well done the sooner you take fender the welcher for what he is (a lying welch) and just ignore his rants, the better off everyone is around here.
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Jan 25 2017 03:36pm
ITT: Cam truth bombs.
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Jan 25 2017 03:37pm
Only here to debunk one of your stupid points about him having stock in the "company that will benefit" from this. I read the article about that and it's the same as any other propaganda bullshit. He owns fucking oil ETFs. I own oil ETFs, anyone who has any stock at all typically has at least some kind of position in oil ETFs. If you're unfamiliar that means a diversified fund that has a bunch of different stocks wrapped up in it in a specific industry. That's like him tweeting, "Bought a car at CarMax today like an everyday American" Then saying he's corrupt because he has stock in a fucking s&p 500 index of which CarMax happens to be a member of, to the tune of 1/500th.

So, get that shit out of here.

This post was edited by AspenSniper on Jan 25 2017 03:38pm
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Jan 25 2017 03:41pm
Quote (fender @ 25 Jan 2017 22:31)
awaiting your angry response, boastfully deluding yourself into believing you totally "dismantled" me and "left me for dead intellectually" and other hilarious shit like that (actually looking forward to it somewhat, that stuff was comedy gold), calling me more names while dodging the topic, followed by advice to "move on"...


O...M...G...

Quote (cambovenzi @ 25 Jan 2017 22:33)
you would stfu for real already? my god.
You were wrong and said a LOT of untrue things. now you still wont drop it, piling on the conspiracies of why you think i didnt do x y and z. You are a crazy person.
Im seriously done with you. go away.


anger? check.
deluding yourself into thinking i was wrong and you were right? check.
more namecalling? check.
avoiding topic related questions altogether? check.
claiming to be done, asking me to move on? check

5/5 - BINGO!!! this is fucking awesome, dance for me, hahaha!
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Jan 25 2017 03:53pm
Eventually a yes or no for action against climate change, mostly depends on what you believe to be important in your life and the time around your life.

Would one care for their kids, grand kids, perhaps even grand grand kids. It usually ends with a couple of generations.
The other aspect is how far reaches your care. would one care for their neighbor, a guy in the next town, the other side of your country, a country next to you, Africa maybe ?

If you live more in the moment caring more for ppl you know, then climate change would not be the most important thing right now.

If ones empathy has a longer reach, it becomes pretty important.
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