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May 13 2013 09:15pm
Aren't the Romans technically responsible for the death of Christ?
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May 13 2013 10:40pm
Quote (jerds24 @ May 13 2013 11:13pm)
Then, the new testament is an heresy falsified by the Roman elite?


I don't care about that. If someone thinks that, whatever. If someone doesn't, whatever. All I'm saying is the positive portrayal of the Romans in the New Testement comes from the concious (Or unconcious) minds of the Roman citizens who wrote them.
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May 13 2013 10:53pm
Quote (Caedus @ May 14 2013 02:40pm)
I don't care about that. If someone thinks that, whatever. If someone doesn't, whatever. All I'm saying is the positive portrayal of the Romans in the New Testement comes from the concious (Or unconcious) minds of the Roman citizens who wrote them.


All twelve of the apostles were born in Israel and were Jewish by both descent and by religious practice, who is to say roman's wrote the gospel?
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May 13 2013 11:17pm
Quote (Lifebane99 @ May 13 2013 10:53pm)
All twelve of the apostles were born in Israel and were Jewish by both descent and by religious practice, who is to say roman's wrote the gospel?


It's well known that the actual apostles did not write the gospels.
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May 13 2013 11:20pm
Quote (AEtheric @ May 14 2013 03:17pm)
It's well known that the actual apostles did not write the gospels.


Is it well known that it was not their grandchildren or other jewish people?
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May 13 2013 11:31pm
Quote (Lifebane99 @ May 13 2013 11:20pm)
Is it well known that it was not their grandchildren or other jewish people?


Well, the only biblical gospel that could have been written by someone who knew the apostles or Jesus is Mark, and even Mark has some passages from the Gospel of Thomas, which are obviously more primitive than the way Mark puts them.

This post was edited by AEtheric on May 13 2013 11:31pm
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May 14 2013 03:00am
Quote (dajusta @ May 13 2013 09:53pm)
Then why do historians believe in its historicity?


When you say historians believe in its historicity, you should really act as if that means they consider every line and story in it to be true... for example, this scene with Pilate and the crowd of Jews could be a plausible reconstruction by the authors (after decades of playing telephone with the story), if not completely made up.

And there's precedent for dajusta saying Caesar and not Tiberius, Jesus called him Caesar in the "render unto Caesar..." It's legit to refer to emperors as Caesar (particularly when unspecified) due to the title (at least it appears to have been common practice in the time).
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May 14 2013 11:33am
I heard the Americans killed Lincoln.
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May 14 2013 11:44am
There is absolutely no reason for the New Testament authors to embellish a view of Pontius Pilate to be innocent in the death of Jesus. The Romans were hated by the disciples, they abused them, overtaxed them, and caused all kinds of historical travesties during the intertestamental period. So it begs the question, if Scriptures say that Pontius Pilate "found no wrong" in Jesus, why would they do so? Because of such national tension, it makes sense to think this information given on Pilate is indeed true.

Secondly, the information provided on Pilate's history and failures have been documented by Josephus, Philo, and Tacitus. These are sources that have no such allegiance to Jews and are more favorable to Roman sources. In these contexts, they show Pilate's inadequacy as a governor and lends truth to the fact that Pilate was in the hot seat with Caesar (Emperor or whatever) at the time. To refute this claim has absolutely no precedence and a weak attempt to discredit the traditional and true view of Biblical history.

Conclusion - the Jewish Pharisees and teachers of the law played an instrumental role in the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ. The Roman soldiers put the nails in, but the Sanhedrin were the culprit.
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May 14 2013 11:48am
Quote (dajusta @ May 14 2013 12:44pm)
There is absolutely no reason for the New Testament authors to embellish a view of Pontius Pilate to be innocent in the death of Jesus.  The Romans were hated by the disciples, they abused them, overtaxed them, and caused all kinds of historical travesties during the intertestamental period.  So it begs the question, if Scriptures say that Pontius Pilate "found no wrong" in Jesus, why would they do so?  Because of such national tension, it makes sense to think this information given on Pilate is indeed true.

Secondly, the information provided on Pilate's history and failures have been documented by Josephus, Philo, and Tacitus.  These are sources that have no such allegiance to Jews and are more favorable to Roman sources.  In these contexts, they show Pilate's inadequacy as a governor and lends truth to the fact that Pilate was in the hot seat with Caesar (Emperor or whatever) at the time.  To refute this claim has absolutely no precedence and a weak attempt to discredit the traditional and true view of Biblical history.

Conclusion - the Jewish Pharisees and teachers of the law played an instrumental role in the crucifixion and death of Jesus Christ.  The Roman soldiers put the nails in, but the Sanhedrin were the culprit.


Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true. Now you've posted this opinion of yours over a dozen times in the eight pages of this thread and it remains an opinion.
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