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#71
Apr 11 2012 03:47pm
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 11 2012 08:59pm)
Heh, most people don't even know what the "Separation of Church and State" means...

Anyway, I think this is a victory for true science.  Pushing the false anti-religious agenda on children is absolutely pathetic.  The militant atheists try and veil their faith as science.  They want to teach our children that we came from monkeys so that we all feel as bad as they do.


rofl what?
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#72
Apr 11 2012 03:52pm
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 11 2012 04:42pm)
That's part of it, sure.  But as I said, most people don't know what it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States#Jefferson.2C%5FMadison.2C%5Fand%5Fthe%5F.22wall%5Fof%5Fseparation.22


Never knew that about Jefferson and Madison, thanks. I've thought for a long time that a church can be corrupted by interacting too much with government as much as government can get screwy by incorporating too much of a church.
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#73
Apr 11 2012 03:59pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ Apr 11 2012 09:52pm)
Never knew that about Jefferson and Madison, thanks. I've thought for a long time that a church can be corrupted by interacting too much with government as much as government can get screwy by incorporating too much of a church.


Yea, it was mainly to protect religious institutions. Remember, America was founded by religious rejects and they HATED the church of England.

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#74
Apr 11 2012 04:00pm
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 11 2012 09:59pm)
Yea, it was mainly to protect religious institutions.  Remember, America was founded by religious rejects and they HATED the church of England.


yo bud

Quote (thundercock @ Apr 11 2012 09:59pm)
Yea, it was mainly to protect religious institutions.  Remember, America was founded by religious rejects and they HATED the church of England.


Quote (thundercock @ Apr 11 2012 08:59pm)
Heh, most people don't even know what the "Separation of Church and State" means...

Anyway, I think this is a victory for true science.  Pushing the false anti-religious agenda on children is absolutely pathetic.  The militant atheists try and veil their faith as science.  They want to teach our children that we came from monkeys so that we all feel as bad as they do.


Quote (hq78 @ Apr 11 2012 09:47pm)
rofl what?


this
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#75
Apr 11 2012 04:04pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ Apr 11 2012 04:03pm)
*sigh*

There is a way around this, which is to say that some argue the existence of a being that created the universe and guided the process by which humans were created. Then they could go on to classify evolution as the most probable way in which all species became the way they are today, and the human chain of evolution stems from an ancestor primate BUT, as an example of the uncertainty around the creation of phylogenetic trees, there are multiple ways we could've gotten from the ancestor primate to here. Also, species change over time.

If there's a discussion that comes up about a literal interpretation of Genesis, the teacher can talk about how there's multiple interpretations of that book that could accommodate the theory of evolution.

Also, it can be argued that intelligent design is part of a culture, and that multiculturalism should prevail. I don't entirely agree with that statement, but 40% of the nation believes in some form of intelligent design AT LEAST. They're not going to just disappear- if you guys really want evolution to become accepted everywhere, you're going to have to transition people with respect for their religions.



Sure, but none of that belongs in a Science class.
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#76
Apr 11 2012 04:07pm
Quote (thundercock @ Apr 11 2012 04:59pm)
Yea, it was mainly to protect religious institutions.  Remember, America was founded by religious rejects and they HATED the church of England.


I got the impression it was more 50/50 about protecting both government and church, but to each their own. I'm sure it was different for each founder.

And indeed! ^_^ The America we know today was founded by religious reformers and/or fundamentalists (depending on how you look at it) who were trying to get away from the serious problems of a state-sponsored church.
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#77
Apr 11 2012 04:19pm
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 11 2012 01:58pm)
I don't see anything wrong with teaching competing ideologies in class.
It isn't like we exactly have evolution figured out either.

If they say the Earth is 6000 years old then yeah there is a problem of giving out misinformation but I don't think there are many/any YEC's in academia.
They are more the home school types.


Skinned I love you and all, but what is this?
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#78
Apr 11 2012 04:19pm
Quote (Aisu_aS @ Apr 11 2012 05:04pm)
Sure, but none of that belongs in a Science class.


How so? People seem to think that religion and science are absolutely separate from one another, when they've been intertwined for millennia and are still connected for many people today. Let me put it this way, if you want to get more people to accept evolution, you have to transition them.

Also, it could be argued that intelligent design is a part of a culture, so it'd be disrespectful not to teach it.
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#79
Apr 11 2012 04:28pm
Quote (catkaboodle @ Apr 11 2012 04:19pm)
How so? People seem to think that religion and science are absolutely separate from one another, when they've been intertwined for millennia and are still connected for many people today. Let me put it this way, if you want to get more people to accept evolution, you have to transition them.

Also, it could be argued that intelligent design is a part of a culture, so it'd be disrespectful not to teach it.


This is perhaps the most insidious of the arguments here: religious extremism hidden under the guise of being reasonable and respectful. Science is about testing theories with evidence. Religion has no place in the discussion as it embraces and, in fact, mandates, belief in the absence of evidence.
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#80
Apr 11 2012 04:30pm
Quote (Nihlathak @ Apr 11 2012 05:19pm)
Skinned I love you and all, but what is this?


I'm just saying that we don't have it all figured out.

Yes of course evolutionary adaptation is a requirement for something to be considered alive but there are still things we're just guessing or narrowing down by attrition.

How enzymes exactly work, whether it's induced fit or lock and key fit. Building blocks that are too small to actually sense and are only theoretical.

We have a long way to go :)

And religion of course belongs in the social studies/sociology classes.

This post was edited by Skinned on Apr 11 2012 04:30pm
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