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Nov 22 2009 02:37pm
Quote (Sioux @ Nov 22 2009 01:19pm)
Since emails are normally intended to be private, people writing them are, shall we say, somewhat freer in expressing themselves than they would in a public statement. For instance, we are sure it comes as no shock to know that many scientists do not hold Steve McIntyre in high regard. Nor that a large group of them thought that the Soon and Baliunas (2003), Douglass et al (2008) or McClean et al (2009) papers were not very good (to say the least) and should not have been published. These sentiments have been made abundantly clear in the literature (though possibly less bluntly).

More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.

Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking.

It’s obvious that the noise-generating components of the blogosphere will generate a lot of noise about this. but it’s important to remember that science doesn’t work because people are polite at all times. Gravity isn’t a useful theory because Newton was a nice person. QED isn’t powerful because Feynman was respectful of other people around him. Science works because different groups go about trying to find the best approximations of the truth, and are generally very competitive about that. That the same scientists can still all agree on the wording of an IPCC chapter for instance is thus even more remarkable.

No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

The timing of this particular episode is probably not coincidental. But if cherry-picked out-of-context phrases from stolen personal emails is the only response to the weight of the scientific evidence for the human influence on climate change, then there probably isn’t much to it.

There are of course lessons to be learned. Clearly no-one would have gone to this trouble if the academic object of study was the mating habits of European butterflies. That community’s internal discussions are probably safe from the public eye. But it is important to remember that emails do seem to exist forever, and that there is always a chance that they will be inadvertently released. Most people do not act as if this is true, but they probably should.

It is tempting to point fingers and declare that people should not have been so open with their thoughts, but who amongst us would really be happy to have all of their email made public?


A great post that I pretty much agree with 100%, my only complaint is that it is lifted pretty much 100% from http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack/ so unless you are the author of that website it would be proper to cite it as the source.
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Nov 22 2009 02:44pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Nov 21 2009 05:57pm)
Seriously, how could you possibly interpret that as a troll?  I was suggesting that you go grab the information yourself from the most popular torrent site on the internet and read through it.  Do the legwork and try to educate yourself rather than just parroting a single biased blog.


So did anyone other than you and I read the emails?
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Nov 23 2009 03:22am
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Nov 23 2009 03:24am
Quote
"[The Emails] confirm suspicions that I have had in 30 years of working in climate science that I saw the hijacking of climate science particularly by computer modelers and then by a small group of people associated with the intergovernmental panel on climate change. The difficulty was that even though I sensed there was these thing going on, proving it is extremely difficult. But now with the exposure of these public files it is not only a smoking gun, it's a battery of machine guns. ... On A global scale it's frightening. This group of people not only controlled the Hadley Center which controls the global data on temperatures, so that the global temperature record is in their hands, they also control the IPCC. ... The IPCC is the basis in all governments for the Kyoto Protocol, the Copenhagen Accord, and so on. ..... The problem they had is they kept saying the 20th century and the latter part of it is the warmest ever. And of course skeptics like myself [and several other names] were saying it was warmer 1000 years ago when the Vikings were in Iceland and Greenland and that's why they decided they had to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period and they achieved that with the hockey stick. In other words they completely rewrote the history."


More.
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Nov 23 2009 03:33am
This is why they want to secure the internet. This is why people like widowmaker and other complete fools believe that "hackers" are the #1 threat to "homeland security".
They want to control the internet so fiercely that information that is leaked can't be spread viral anymore.

It's the propaganda machine spinning it's wheels in overtime. The Mainstream medias won't even touch this story, and if they do it will be for a short spin and probably end up demonizing "hackers" and shit.

Tric, I met Tim Ball irl.
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Nov 23 2009 03:39am
Quote (datajunky @ Nov 23 2009 04:33am)
This is why they want to secure the internet. This is why people like widowmaker and other complete fools believe that "hackers" are the #1 threat to "homeland security".
They want to control the internet so fiercely that information that is leaked can't be spread viral anymore.

It's the propaganda machine spinning it's wheels in overtime. The Mainstream medias won't even touch this story, and if they do it will be for a short spin and probably end up demonizing "hackers" and shit.

Tric, I met Tim Ball irl.


The number one threat to national security is cyber-terrorism
.

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Nov 23 2009 03:48am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Nov 23 2009 04:39am)
The number one threat to national security is cyber-terrorism .


You're delusions only cloud your judgment old man.
Prove it.
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Nov 23 2009 03:50am
Quote (datajunky @ Nov 23 2009 04:48am)
You're delusions only cloud your judgment old man.
Prove it.


I will take the judgment of our national security experts over that of random net posters . The good thing is that I don't have to prove anything because they are in charge , not you .
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Nov 23 2009 04:35am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Nov 23 2009 04:50am)
I will take the judgment of our national security experts over that of random net posters . The good thing is that I don't have to prove anything because they are in charge , not you .


You are the perfect slave.
You even fight to destroy your own freedoms.

I would find it hilarious if I was as inherently evil as you are.
Fortunately for me, I find it sad. :(
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Nov 23 2009 09:41am
Quote (Azrad @ Nov 22 2009 04:44pm)
So did anyone other than you and I read the emails?


I obviously read them and debunked them way back on an early page...
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