Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 4 2024 04:36pm)

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 4 2024 09:37am)

Israel is armed to the teeth and has a long track record of fending off attacks by their Arab neighbors, who unsuccessfully teamed up on them on multiple occasions. If the entire Middle East gets into a blood frenzy and goes full zergling on Israel, they could probably overrun them with sheer numbers, but millions of them would die in the process and normal humans just aren't wired that way.

Also, it would absolutely be Israel which does most of the fighting if shit hits the fan. The US would mostly sit back on their carriers and support them from the air and sea. With how unpopular boots-on-the-ground operations have become since the Iraq War, the only scenario in which the US would perhaps still deploy a lot of them is if the governments of SA and the Gulf monarchies get toppled by hostile forces and someone has to go in and secure the oil fields of the ME from being seized by islamists or the Chinese.

Israel is in fact shouldering most of the cost of its security, be it in direct defense spending or indirectly in the form of a long and universal military service which decreases Israel's labor force potential.

Quote (Meanwhile @ 4 Jul 2024 16:40)

In the West, women have long had to wear the veil. This has stay until the 30's. Ofc it was not Hijab.

Excellent movie, you should watch it and learn.


https://c8.alamy.com/comp/HN1B3J/edwardian-period-country-farm-girl-making-hay-1900s-HN1B3J.jpg

Quote (Chainsaw47 @ 4 Jul 2024 16:43)

I’m not sure I follow your argument then. If they can and would defend themselves, do most of the fighting and foot most of the bill, why are they getting so much aid from the US? Seems like the relationship is heavily skewed one way. Would it be too much to expect military aid from Israel in future operations in the Middle East?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 4 2024 04:56pm)

Women didn't have to wear the veil in the West like they do in Muslim societies. It was part of the traditional clothing in some segments of society, but never binding and never a society-wide phenomenon. And a full-body veiling was never the standard in Western societies.
Because successful deterrence makes it much cheaper to prevent larger wars from breaking out to begin with. After October 7, if the US had ostentatiously refused to send a carrier group to region, chances are that Hezbollah would have opened a proper second front in the north and the whole war would have escalated a lot more, with hundreds of thousands of additional casualties.
What exactly do you mean by "so much aid from the US"? Israel received $3.8bn in military aid from the US in 2023. The defense budget they passed in May of 2023 had anticipated 517 billion shekels in military spending, which corresponds to $138bn. They will raise it to roughly $150bn this year.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 4 2024 10:56am)

Because successful deterrence makes it much cheaper to prevent larger wars from breaking out to begin with. After October 7, if the US had ostentatiously refused to send a carrier group to region, chances are that Hezbollah would have opened a proper second front in the north and the whole war would have escalated a lot more, with hundreds of thousands of additional casualties.

What exactly do you mean by "so much aid from the US"? Israel received $3.8bn in military aid from the US in 2023. The defense budget they passed in May of 2023 had anticipated 517 billion shekels in military spending, which corresponds to $138bn. They will raise it to roughly $150bn this year.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jul 4 2024 10:40am)

In the West, women have long had to wear the veil. This has stay until the 30's. Ofc it was not Hijab.

Excellent movie, you should watch it and learn.


https://c8.alamy.com/comp/HN1B3J/edwardian-period-country-farm-girl-making-hay-1900s-HN1B3J.jpg

Quote (Meanwhile @ 4 Jul 2024 17:05)

"Tradtional clothing in some segments" ? This was mainstream for centuries. You are out.

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Along with these far right Israelis war criminals who are endangering Jews all around the world.

Quote (Chainsaw47 @ Jul 4 2024 05:07pm)

Had to wear the veil? It was frequently worn during church service, sure, but that’s not what you’re saying.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jul 4 2024 11:14am)

The head covered, and long clothes. You should really document yourself.

Many photos and paintings show colorful headdresses of the wealthy class, but the overwhelming majority was poor and the women wore scarves on their heads.

Political-religious debates have made us lose sight of the fact that this square of fabric has long been, in our countries, an attribute common to many women.

Quote (Chainsaw47 @ Jul 4 2024 05:21pm)

Quite the stretch to compare people wearing clothes to protect themselves from the sun or posing for a painting with religious indoctrination enforcing head coverings. Your claim was that women in the was had to wear a veil up to the 1930s.

Quote (Meanwhile @ Jul 4 2024 04:30pm)

In the 1900-1930's in most of western countries women didnt have the right to vote and were veiled in public most of the time, curious what would happen if some others countries, well organized and with superior military power, would have constantly kept us from evolving, triggering coups, or whatever other interferences to put us down.
Not that I'm praising Islam, on the contrary, but Israel has absolutely no merit in anything. Yet it is very clearly, rightfully, accused of war crimes. Maybe they aren't the only one who finally brought more problems than solutions... "yeah"

So i will temper down time/reality travel allowing to say things likes "At the end of the day" & "They are significantly better than the alternatives in the region" ^_^

Quote (Chainsaw47 @ 4 Jul 2024 17:07)

I’m all for having a presence there if it means protecting important assets and preventing escalation which could reach the West, but why spend so much on it? It can’t be a crucial investment necessary to keep the peace and just a drop in the ocean at the same time. I’m curious where you got that $138b figure, what I’m finding is around $27.5b in 2023 (up from ~$23b in 2022). At any rate, it’s still over $300b the US has given in aid to Israel since 1948 (adjusted for inflation). That seems like a lot to me.

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The ministry, in a document presented to parliament on Monday, said the overall 2024 budget will probably have to total 562 billion shekels, compared to 513 billion when the spending plan was first approved last May.

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Most of the aid—approximately $3.3 billion a year—is provided as grants under the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program, funds that Israel must use to purchase U.S. military equipment and services.