Quote (addone @ Apr 17 2023 04:19pm)

Back in the day England didn't have a drawn out expensive process for death. It was done in a short amount of time. Today most death row inmates die in prison well before they can actually be executed. What a joke.
That's the whole point. The tax payers didn't have to bear exorbitant amount of lawyer fees. It was far cheaper to hang someone then to keep them alive in prison for life. Today the whole thing got turned upside down and the criminal almost never gets executed. It basically evolved to a more expensive life sentence and made a few lawyers richer. So in practice it's not really a death sentence any more.

Quote (El1te @ 17 Apr 2023 06:03)

It's a principle with its roots in Catholicism. There was no such notion of opposition to a death penalty whatsoever before the Catholic church studied it and came to that conclusion.

Quote (Plaguefear @ Apr 17 2023 08:06pm)

And estimates are that 8% of people executed are innocent.

Quote (addone @ Apr 17 2023 07:49pm)

Not sure where you pulling those stats from but what do you expect from 1800 and early 1900's? No shit they had greater margins of error. They didn't have cellphones, CCTV, advanced forensics, DNA testing, modern detectives and interrogation techniques like we do now.
The problem is the judicial system moves extremely slowly, taking months between hearings. Then you have these woke gate keepers on jury that will last minute decide they don't feel like it. Only because the prison system rewards them by providing another inmate to milk tax payers dollars from.
Desantis wants to make it easier for a 8-4 vote instead of unanimously

Quote (Plaguefear @ Apr 17 2023 10:21pm)

No 8% in modern America, much higher than that in the past.

Quote (addone @ Apr 17 2023 08:34pm)

You have to explain yourself more then can't just jump in mid conversion I was having with someone else and blurt out statistics without citations or context.

Quote (Plaguefear @ Apr 18 2023 12:05am)

I can do whatever I want in my own topic you insufferable bore.

Quote (addone @ Apr 17 2023 12:12am)

That doesn't tell you crime rates before and after. Those states could have had historically lower crime rates and or due to other factors.
If taking away death penalty reduced crime rate then everyone would be doing it. Most of the non death penalty countries got away with it because it became redundant and or the minute percentage of cases where it was not worth the hassle.

Most violent crime goes away when economic factors improve along with access to healthcare and education on top of that. It's basically a universally agreed concept. Harsher punishments do work when they are felt this has been trained into our brain like pavlov's dogs. Most researchers would tell you it doesn't but those usually don't account for the coushy accommodation you get, 3 square meals a day and peace and quiet. Some places people commit crimes just to get into jail because life is easier on the inside. Death row inmates are having a laugh as they get to basically play the system and not have to worry about ever getting the needle because they know the system is too soft. Hard core criminals go to jail just to hang out with their family and friends or for education. There is no sting in the punishment any more, there is no smelly rotten dungeon where you are locked for months without seeing the sky. There is no more weekly hanging at town square , no one is chopping fingers for theft. Gone are the days where you were marked with iron for others to see that you were a criminal. There is no public humiliations where they walk the streets and people spit in your face.

Bet you things would improve over night if 1/2 those are brought back

Quote (Meanwhile @ Apr 17 2023 02:47am)

Answer to this then:

Christianity was existing since 1500+ years while capital punishement was abolished in the last ~50 years, Christianity and rural ignorance was falling at this time (start in the 60s), precisely...
However it still exists in religious U.S states. Death sentence and Christianity are bounded together.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/15/unlike-other-u-s-religious-groups-most-atheists-and-agnostics-oppose-the-death-penalty/

Quote (El1te @ Apr 17 2023 11:31am)

Christian nations have advanced much like everything else. The genesis of the idea of abolishing the death penalty came from the Catholic church. It took a long time for the people in general to catch on to that idea.

Christians used to burn cats. Such a terrible heresy that people have moved past