Quote (bogie160 @ 24 Sep 2020 17:40)

If we go by the death rates, the UK is comparable, and places like Belgium and Spain are worse. Italy and Sweden are comparable.

Places like France may be lagging behind, but their recent spikes are significantly higher than in the United States. To what extent they merely pushed the problem off remains to be seen.

At the end of the day, as far as Western societies go, Sweden may have had the right of it.

Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Sep 24 2020 12:09pm)

You have no fucking idea of what will happen at the end of the day.
US are going straight for numbers like in Spain or Belgium.

And you can thanks Trump voters for this.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 24 2020 10:59am)

If we go by deaths per 1m, then Spain, Belgium, Italy and the UK are already worse than Sweden, but those were the epicenters of the pandemic in Europe. Sweden might be able to leave France behind in the end, but the next on the list is the Netherlands with a large gap, so it looks as if Sweden will still end up with one of the worst mortality rates in Europe. All neighboring Scandinavic countries are doing far better by this metric, just like Germany, Poland, Portugal, Greece, Austria, and most of Eastern Europe.

The Swedish strategy might be the best one if pulled off perfectly, but it's a high risk strategy, every mistake you make with it is punished badly - and that's what happened in Sweden when they failed to properly protect the elderly in the beginning. They paid for this mistake with a high and unnecessary death toll.

Also, let's not forget that the Swedish model crucially relies on a disciplined, responsible, solidary populace who eagerly plays along with what its government asks from it. Doesnt really sound like a feasible approach for the U.S. ^_^

Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 24 2020 09:27am)

Until it mutates around immunity.

herd immunity depends on a flu virus behaving over time like chicken pox, and even chicken pox can come back as terrible shingles. but a flu isn't chicken pox, it's not nearly as stagnant. it will get around immunity, as it already has, and require continual updates to vaccines.

people who lean on herd immunity and vaccines just make me confused....

Quote (thesnipa @ 24 Sep 2020 18:27)

Until it mutates around immunity.

herd immunity depends on a flu virus behaving over time like chicken pox, and even chicken pox can come back as terrible shingles. but a flu isn't chicken pox, it's not nearly as stagnant. it will get around immunity, as it already has, and require continual updates to vaccines.

people who lean on herd immunity and vaccines just make me confused....

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 24 2020 11:47am)

I might be wrong on this one, but to the best of my knowledge, coronaviruses dont mutate nearly as fast as influenza viruses.



Also, what is your suggestion on how to deal with this virus if not vaccines? Do you expect us to indefinitely wear masks, keep clubs/restaurants closed, and ban sports events?

Quote (bogie160 @ Sep 24 2020 11:04am)

Bold explains a huge percentage of the death toll in the United States.

I think the ideal solution would have been to lock away the elderly and go about our normal day to day. That won't work in Mediterranean countries where the elderly actively live in multigenerational households, but it sounds like a good fit for the United States.

I don't think that lockdowns work in countries that aren't used to the sort of behavior required to achieve good results. Europe has struggled, East Asia seems to be fine.



I don't think it's fair to explain away European struggles as a function of their terrible health-care, and not explain away American struggles as a function of our cultural obsession with individual rights.

What works in South Korea may not work in the United States.

Quote (thesnipa @ 24 Sep 2020 19:01)

i expressed that poorly. im annoyed by people who think a vaccine will cure it easily, or that if we just did herd immunity we'd be in the clear.

Quote (Bazi @ 24 Sep 2020 19:06)

European struggles are not based solely of inferior healthcare. I am saying that is a contributing aspect to their mortality rates. There are a number of variables thet contributed to their overall severity including hospitals being burdened and habing far less time to react. By the time they realized it they were all in NY esque scenarios, which is obviously not the normal US state experience. This consistent divergence from South Korea to us is just an excuse to be frank.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 24 2020 12:10pm)

Well, not 100% in the clear, just like there are still waves of the seasonal flu despite vaccines. But once we have a vaccine for covid (and it has been distributed, which will take another couple of months once it's available), it will no longer be such a huge issue that we have to shut down entire industries or infringe on basic civic rights because of it. Also, once we have a working vaccine, this will buy the world a ton of time to do further research on the virus, on potential treatments and future, better vaccines etc. A first vaccine would allow the global medical community to "get ahead" of the virus.