d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate >
Poll > Trump 2020 > Trump Vs. Pack O' Dems
Prev1686687688689690983Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
  Guests cannot view or vote in polls. Please register or login.
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
Sep 21 2020 04:52am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Sep 21 2020 03:36am)
Unfortunately we are in 2020, and not anymore in 1850 or 1950.


Shouldn't you be prepping for defense against the next group of attacks this Ramadan? Last I checked, the Ramadan Bombathon is still a think where you live. Might be you should get on that.

To even attempt to claim that civics, which is nothing more than the study of why your nation exists, how it exists, and why it should continue to exist is a good thing is somehow "wrong" makes you about as ignorant of anything real world as exists. Nations that teach self-hate inevitably fall to dictatorships (like China!) or turn into failed states (like Libya!) because there's no alternative provided.

Critical Theory is nothing but disintegrationist trash. The idea that because literally not everything from day one to today was perfect, the entire system has to be torn apart. That those who fall higher on some completely arbitrary "victim scale" should receive the products of labor of those who fall lower. Deincentivising those lower on the scale from continuing their labor. Next step is an increased government presence enforcing that labor. But the current government and it's way of governing won't do. Why? Well, liberty can't exist if you enforce unwilling labor without an actual crime committed. That's called slavery. So instead, you enforce labor, and redistribute property, and rather than calling it slavery, you call it "Mandatory Employment" and do your best to obfuscate it with US labor protection acts.

If you're communist, fine. Just admit that you believe you have a right to control the property, labor, and very lives of people other than yourself for no reason whatsoever, and call it good. At least that's honest. Stop claiming to have principles.

And don't act as though personal liberty is an outdated thought. That kind of bullshit is why your country is constantly mocked as having a national flag of pure white. :)
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Sep 21 2020 05:09am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ 21 Sep 2020 12:52)
Shouldn't you be prepping for defense against the next group of attacks this Ramadan?
...[Wall of hate]....
That kind of bullshit is why your country is constantly mocked as having a national flag of pure white. :)


Like i said we are no longer in 1850 (apex of old west) or 1950 (start of McCarthyism)
Today many countries have nuclear power and sub-marines, the World became extremely complexe, connected, and wealth concentration is reaching unprecedented levels.

Reasonable measures & regulations are necessary for health, education, and environment. Basically to ensure the cohesion and future of your society.

Trump is destroying your country with lies and division and you like this toxic milk. This is the dying dark side of US.
Traitors will be punished.
Member
Posts: 105,150
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 10,475.00
Sep 21 2020 05:26am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Sep 21 2020 07:09am)
Like i said we are no longer in 1850 (apex of old west) or 1950 (start of McCarthyism)
Today many countries have nuclear power and sub-marines, the World became extremely complexe, connected, and wealth concentration is reaching unprecedented levels.

Reasonable measures & regulations are necessary for health, education, and environment. Basically to ensure the cohesion and future of your society.

Trump is destroying your country with lies and division and you like this toxic milk. This is the dying dark side of US.
Traitors will be punished.




Trump isn't destroying this country. Where have you been?
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
Sep 21 2020 05:28am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Sep 21 2020 04:09am)
Like i said we are no longer in 1850 (apex of old west) or 1950 (start of McCarthyism)
Today many countries have nuclear power and sub-marines, the World became extremely complexe, connected, and wealth concentration is reaching unprecedented levels.

Reasonable measures & regulations are necessary for health, education, and environment. Basically to ensure the cohesion and future of your society.

Trump is destroying your country with lies and division and you like this toxic milk. This is the dying dark side of US.
Traitors will be punished.


You've said nothing relevant. You've failed to address any point. Then you've pointed the finger at your current bogeyman.

Please show me where on the map Trump touched France in a naughty way, so we can get to the heart of your little feelings crises, kiddo. Until then, stop alluding to some non-existent knowledge you have that nobody else can possibly know.

You know what "reasonable measures and regulations" lead to in your utopia? Currently some 15% of China's landmass that used to support people is no longer populated and cannot be. It's been poisoned to a point where it can no longer sustain human life.

You don't tell people they can't heat their homes, or power their vehicles. You don't tell companies that they can't produce a product. Because that's an invasion of their civil liberties. That's attempting to enforce your will upon others when you have no right to do so. The US Government doesn't chop off people's heads willy nilly to show the world just how "liberated" they are. The US Government exists as a REPRESENTATIVE government. Where their decisions are designed to compliment what the people want to do.

So, from a scientific standpoint? If you believe that the old '67 Corvette Coupe is a gas hog that's an absolute pollutant, you don't tell people they can't drive. You incentivise them to purchase a Tesla by providing a tax credit that will allow you to purchase that Tesla at the same price getting the old muscle car would cost you.

You don't tell the person, "You can't power your air conditioner." Instead you enforce the measures that are the most scientifically up to date to ensure that the cleanest possible power is available to power their homes, and if dirtier power is used, deincentivise (tax) it's heavy usage.

The problem with you communist types is that you think you can simply point the finger at 330 million people and say, "Don't do this." and it'll accomplish anything.

Fact: If every man, woman, and child in the United States of America ceased to exist today, all our production and activity stopped worldwide, the impact on the climate overall would be less than 0.3%. We're not a major violater.

Fact: If the US removed all troops and bases from overseas, multiple wars would flare back up, multiple (enforced) peace agreements would almost instantly vanish.

Fact: If the US decides that covid "is just a cold" then it'll probably be years (if ever) before a legitimate vaccine is ever produced.

Fact: The United States is not "the big evil". And civics, a set of courses designed to teach you all the GOOD your nation has done, all the GOOD your nation is currently doing, and why you should be PROUD to not only be a part of, but to help further the GOOD that your nation represents is a VERY GOOD thing. Critical theory is designed to create a victim narrative, where any form of nation or state is terrible, and all of life is about victimhood. And the fact that you've bought into that line of horse shit hook, line, and sinker is why you, as a Frenchy, are so concerned about the United States, that our President is more important to you over 6000 km away than the actions and decisions of your own government.
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Sep 21 2020 07:01am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ 21 Sep 2020 13:28)
You've said nothing relevant. You've failed to address any point. Then you've pointed the finger at your current bogeyman.

Please show me where on the map Trump touched France in a naughty way, so we can get to the heart of your little feelings crises, kiddo. Until then, stop alluding to some non-existent knowledge you have that nobody else can possibly know.

You know what "reasonable measures and regulations" lead to in your utopia? Currently some 15% of China's landmass that used to support people is no longer populated and cannot be. It's been poisoned to a point where it can no longer sustain human life.

You don't tell people they can't heat their homes, or power their vehicles. You don't tell companies that they can't produce a product. Because that's an invasion of their civil liberties. That's attempting to enforce your will upon others when you have no right to do so. The US Government doesn't chop off people's heads willy nilly to show the world just how "liberated" they are. The US Government exists as a REPRESENTATIVE government. Where their decisions are designed to compliment what the people want to do.

So, from a scientific standpoint? If you believe that the old '67 Corvette Coupe is a gas hog that's an absolute pollutant, you don't tell people they can't drive. You incentivise them to purchase a Tesla by providing a tax credit that will allow you to purchase that Tesla at the same price getting the old muscle car would cost you.

You don't tell the person, "You can't power your air conditioner." Instead you enforce the measures that are the most scientifically up to date to ensure that the cleanest possible power is available to power their homes, and if dirtier power is used, deincentivise (tax) it's heavy usage.

The problem with you communist types is that you think you can simply point the finger at 330 million people and say, "Don't do this." and it'll accomplish anything.

Fact: If every man, woman, and child in the United States of America ceased to exist today, all our production and activity stopped worldwide, the impact on the climate overall would be less than 0.3%. We're not a major violater.

Fact: If the US removed all troops and bases from overseas, multiple wars would flare back up, multiple (enforced) peace agreements would almost instantly vanish.

Fact: If the US decides that covid "is just a cold" then it'll probably be years (if ever) before a legitimate vaccine is ever produced.

Fact: The United States is not "the big evil". And civics, a set of courses designed to teach you all the GOOD your nation has done, all the GOOD your nation is currently doing, and why you should be PROUD to not only be a part of, but to help further the GOOD that your nation represents is a VERY GOOD thing. Critical theory is designed to create a victim narrative, where any form of nation or state is terrible, and all of life is about victimhood. And the fact that you've bought into that line of horse shit hook, line, and sinker is why you, as a Frenchy, are so concerned about the United States, that our President is more important to you over 6000 km away than the actions and decisions of your own government.


All this is wrong, and it's not surprising coming from a Trump supporter.
Not sure which line is the worst in-between Science Denial, Muh freedom, or ISIS spread peace.
"Big Evil" is only coming from the orifice you are using as a mouth.
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
Sep 21 2020 07:13am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Sep 21 2020 06:01am)
All this is wrong, and it's not surprising coming from a Trump supporter.
Not sure which line is the worst in-between Science Denial, Muh freedom, or ISIS spread peace.
"Big Evil" is only coming from the orifice you are using as a mouth.


1. If I've stated something factually incorrect, feel free to disprove it. You haven't because you can't.

2. Nobody in this forum has ever seen you quote any actual science, or show any grasp of a single scientific concept. You use the word "science" like a sun worshipper from 4000 years ago referred to our star. It's not a god, mate. I'm providing you pure scientific facts. If you can refute them, do so, I welcome it. I enjoy learning. If you can not, please take your old world religious zealotry to a religious thread. This is a political thread, for a nation you are not a part of in the first place.

3. Weak insult is weak. Try harder next time. Preferably after reading a book. Or at least a comic. I dunno, anything other than random youtube videos of "scream-ins" or whatever it is you communists find meaning in these days.
Member
Posts: 32,102
Joined: Oct 25 2005
Gold: 3,859.00
Sep 21 2020 07:48am
Americans who think the coming election is their last chance to save the republic from authoritarianism — Americans, until recently, like me — are almost certainly wrong. Authoritarianism is already here, and what Americans will decide in November is whether it will grow more deeply entrenched.

According to a new report, the U.S. is undergoing “substantial autocratization” — so much so that only one in five similarly damaged democracies has been able to reverse such decline. President Donald Trump’s administration is consuming democratic capacity at about the same pace that wildfire has been destroying the West. The White House has been a source of lies since Trump’s presidency began. Since his impeachment and acquittal by Senate Republicans, his transgressions have grown more aggressive, while being more aggressively supported by the departments of Justice and Homeland Security — together the equivalent of a mighty Security Ministry — both of which are controlled by men who share Trump’s disregard for rule of law.

Under the direction of Attorney General William Barr and Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf, the state has assumed the form of unidentified men in unmarked vehicles, a hallmark of anti-democratic regimes. Whistle-blowers and protest resignations have become recurring features of both departments. These admirable acts of conscience seek to bring attention to systemic abuses — the corruption of intelligence for political purposes at Homeland Security, and the corruption of law, including favors for friends and vengeance for opponents, at Justice.

But declarations of conscience are not a substitute for rule of law; they are merely proof of its absence. And people of good faith are no match for large bureaucracies severed from ethical norms and lawful rigor.

Fear of fascism was once a luxury political good in the U.S., a fringe obsession rendered trivial by the enduring realities of a stable democracy. The authoritarian drive of the American president — and of the nation’s chief law enforcement officer, with the complicity of most of the Republican Party — has altered that.


In a sign of just how self-aware the assault on democracy is, allies of the president now equate opposition to Trump with the “color revolutions” that swept the post-Soviet sphere. In this understanding of the political moment, Trump is cast in the role of a corrupt, Russian-backed dictator. The forces countering him are the masses who take to the streets clamoring for democracy, accountability and rule of law.

The mass action of a popular election, in the midst of a pandemic that Trump allows to rage, is where these opposing forces will meet in November. It’s entirely unclear how that will play out. In recent weeks, Barr has been a source of falsehoods about voting security, which seem designed to serve as a basis for Trump doing exactly what he has threatened to do: Dispute the results of an election that he is on track to lose. Trump has implied that he will deploy force, and encourage armed supporters to do

As political analyst Ronald Brownstein points out, Trump conceives himself president of Americans in red states, waging war against those in blue states. (To Trump, blue state lives trade at a discount.) It’s an unapologetically fascist vision, but it’s not Trump’s alone. Walter Shaub, a former government ethics watchdog who was driven from office under Trump, notes that the operative question for the MAGA base is not: Are you better off than you were four years ago? It is: Are your enemies worse off?

A color revolution did, in fact, sweep the U.S. this year. Black Lives Matter protests may well be the largest popular protest movement in American history. Researchers have concluded that somewhere between 15 million and 26 million people participated in demonstrations in the weeks following the killing of George Floyd by police officers. Additional protests in hundreds of cities and small towns accompanied a subsequent wave of damning evidence of police brutality.

After weeks of attacks on BLM by Trump and Barr, public support for the movement has declined, with most of the decline, predictably, taking place among Republicans. Yet in a survey this month by Pew Research Cen
55% of American adults still say they strongly or somewhat support the Black Lives Matter movement. Perhaps not coincidentally, that’s about the same share that consistently voices disapproval of Trump’s presidency.
Barr has made it clear that he shares Trump’s view that this American majority should be neutered. BLM is “not interested in Black lives, they’re interested in props,” Barr said in remarks last week. “A small number of Blacks were killed by police during conflict with police — usually less than a dozen a year — who they can use as props to achieve a much broader political agenda.”
In a previous interview with the virulent right-wing propagandist Mark Levin, Barr suggested what this “broader political agenda” entailed. He described Black Lives Matter as “a revolutionary group that is interested in some form of socialism, communism. They’re essentially Bolsheviks.”
Exaggeration of left-wing violence and the manufacture of nefarious leftist threats is a feature of countries that succumbed to right-wing authoritarianism. “Our nation has been gripped by professional anarchists,” Trump said in June. “Violent mobs, arsonists, looters, criminals, rioters, Antifa and others.” Barr’s own obsession with the confection of left-wing agitation and right-wing myth-making known as “Antifa” is another indicator that his political views are increasingly untethered to democratic reality. “I’ve talked to every police chief in every city where there’s been major violence, and they all have identified Antifa as the ramrod for the violence,” Barr told CNN.


That Trump and Barr harp on Antifa while ignoring the more violent and pervasive terrorism committed by right-wing vigilantes is another discomfiting sign. Elizabeth Neumann, a Trump appointee who served as an assistant secretary for counterterrorism and threat prevention in the Department of Homeland Security before leaving the department in April, said that the Trump administration labeled Antifa as domestic terrorists “for political purposes.”
The ultimate purpose remains opaque. But Barr clearly views the democratic playing field as unfair and conservatives as victims, their righteous claims to power vandalized by secularism’s “unremitting assault on religion and traditional values.” In a speech at the University of Notre Dame last year, he used variations of the word “secular” 21 times to describe the enemy. Those who don’t share Barr’s drive to preserve and extend the most corrupt administration in American history are guilty of pushing the country on a “socialist path” toward certain doom, he says.
The U.S. is no more immune to fascism than the Oval Office is to demagoguery. Generations of Black Americans lived with a jackboot on the neck. Nazis in full regalia took over Madison Square Garden for a German Bund event before the U.S. entered World War II. In later years, to a certain segment of the American left, fascism was always and everywhere incipient. Ronald Reagan? Crypto-fascist. George W. Bush? Crypto. Cheney? Not even crypto.
The threat perception this time is not a political luxury, an ideological trifle afforded by a functioning democratic system. The threat is now firmly lodged inside the fortress of American power.
Authoritarians are fully in command of the White House. The Department of Justice is led by another. The rot has spread through the ranks of executive departments large and small. Not even the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention can escape. Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin is running an investigation using known Russian disinformation with the express purpose of damaging the president’s political opponent.
If public opinion polls are correct, and there is no reason to believe otherwise, a democratic election is poised to counter this authoritarian thrust. How the authoritarians will respond, beyond the sabotage of voting access already under way, is unknown. But the notion that this election will fend off an authoritarian regime is incorrect. That regime is already in place.
Member
Posts: 54,184
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Sep 21 2020 03:58pm
Quote (said_aouita @ 21 Sep 2020 15:48)
Americans who think the coming election is their last chance to save the republic from authoritarianism — Americans, until recently, like me — are almost certainly wrong. Authoritarianism is already here, and what Americans will decide in November is whether it will grow more deeply entrenched.

According to a new report, the U.S. is undergoing “substantial autocratization” — so much so that only one in five similarly damaged democracies has been able to reverse such decline. President Donald Trump’s administration is consuming democratic capacity at about the same pace that wildfire has been destroying the West. The White House has been a source of lies since Trump’s presidency began. Since his impeachment and acquittal by Senate Republicans, his transgressions have grown more aggressive, while being more aggressively supported by the departments of Justice and Homeland Security — together the equivalent of a mighty Security Ministry — both of which are controlled by men who share Trump’s disregard for rule of law.

Under the direction of Attorney General William Barr and Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf, the state has assumed the form of unidentified men in unmarked vehicles, a hallmark of anti-democratic regimes. Whistle-blowers and protest resignations have become recurring features of both departments. These admirable acts of conscience seek to bring attention to systemic abuses — the corruption of intelligence for political purposes at Homeland Security, and the corruption of law, including favors for friends and vengeance for opponents, at Justice.

But declarations of conscience are not a substitute for rule of law; they are merely proof of its absence. And people of good faith are no match for large bureaucracies severed from ethical norms and lawful rigor.

Fear of fascism was once a luxury political good in the U.S., a fringe obsession rendered trivial by the enduring realities of a stable democracy. The authoritarian drive of the American president — and of the nation’s chief law enforcement officer, with the complicity of most of the Republican Party — has altered that.


In a sign of just how self-aware the assault on democracy is, allies of the president now equate opposition to Trump with the “color revolutions” that swept the post-Soviet sphere. In this understanding of the political moment, Trump is cast in the role of a corrupt, Russian-backed dictator. The forces countering him are the masses who take to the streets clamoring for democracy, accountability and rule of law.

The mass action of a popular election, in the midst of a pandemic that Trump allows to rage, is where these opposing forces will meet in November. It’s entirely unclear how that will play out. In recent weeks, Barr has been a source of falsehoods about voting security, which seem designed to serve as a basis for Trump doing exactly what he has threatened to do: Dispute the results of an election that he is on track to lose. Trump has implied that he will deploy force, and encourage armed supporters to do

As political analyst Ronald Brownstein points out, Trump conceives himself president of Americans in red states, waging war against those in blue states. (To Trump, blue state lives trade at a discount.) It’s an unapologetically fascist vision, but it’s not Trump’s alone. Walter Shaub, a former government ethics watchdog who was driven from office under Trump, notes that the operative question for the MAGA base is not: Are you better off than you were four years ago? It is: Are your enemies worse off?

A color revolution did, in fact, sweep the U.S. this year. Black Lives Matter protests may well be the largest popular protest movement in American history. Researchers have concluded that somewhere between 15 million and 26 million people participated in demonstrations in the weeks following the killing of George Floyd by police officers. Additional protests in hundreds of cities and small towns accompanied a subsequent wave of damning evidence of police brutality.

After weeks of attacks on BLM by Trump and Barr, public support for the movement has declined, with most of the decline, predictably, taking place among Republicans. Yet in a survey this month by Pew Research Cen
55% of American adults still say they strongly or somewhat support the Black Lives Matter movement. Perhaps not coincidentally, that’s about the same share that consistently voices disapproval of Trump’s presidency.
Barr has made it clear that he shares Trump’s view that this American majority should be neutered. BLM is “not interested in Black lives, they’re interested in props,” Barr said in remarks last week. “A small number of Blacks were killed by police during conflict with police — usually less than a dozen a year — who they can use as props to achieve a much broader political agenda.”
In a previous interview with the virulent right-wing propagandist Mark Levin, Barr suggested what this “broader political agenda” entailed. He described Black Lives Matter as “a revolutionary group that is interested in some form of socialism, communism. They’re essentially Bolsheviks.”
Exaggeration of left-wing violence and the manufacture of nefarious leftist threats is a feature of countries that succumbed to right-wing authoritarianism. “Our nation has been gripped by professional anarchists,” Trump said in June. “Violent mobs, arsonists, looters, criminals, rioters, Antifa and others.” Barr’s own obsession with the confection of left-wing agitation and right-wing myth-making known as “Antifa” is another indicator that his political views are increasingly untethered to democratic reality. “I’ve talked to every police chief in every city where there’s been major violence, and they all have identified Antifa as the ramrod for the violence,” Barr told CNN.


That Trump and Barr harp on Antifa while ignoring the more violent and pervasive terrorism committed by right-wing vigilantes is another discomfiting sign. Elizabeth Neumann, a Trump appointee who served as an assistant secretary for counterterrorism and threat prevention in the Department of Homeland Security before leaving the department in April, said that the Trump administration labeled Antifa as domestic terrorists “for political purposes.”
The ultimate purpose remains opaque. But Barr clearly views the democratic playing field as unfair and conservatives as victims, their righteous claims to power vandalized by secularism’s “unremitting assault on religion and traditional values.” In a speech at the University of Notre Dame last year, he used variations of the word “secular” 21 times to describe the enemy. Those who don’t share Barr’s drive to preserve and extend the most corrupt administration in American history are guilty of pushing the country on a “socialist path” toward certain doom, he says.
The U.S. is no more immune to fascism than the Oval Office is to demagoguery. Generations of Black Americans lived with a jackboot on the neck. Nazis in full regalia took over Madison Square Garden for a German Bund event before the U.S. entered World War II. In later years, to a certain segment of the American left, fascism was always and everywhere incipient. Ronald Reagan? Crypto-fascist. George W. Bush? Crypto. Cheney? Not even crypto.
The threat perception this time is not a political luxury, an ideological trifle afforded by a functioning democratic system. The threat is now firmly lodged inside the fortress of American power.
Authoritarians are fully in command of the White House. The Department of Justice is led by another. The rot has spread through the ranks of executive departments large and small. Not even the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention can escape. Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin is running an investigation using known Russian disinformation with the express purpose of damaging the president’s political opponent.
If public opinion polls are correct, and there is no reason to believe otherwise, a democratic election is poised to counter this authoritarian thrust. How the authoritarians will respond, beyond the sabotage of voting access already under way, is unknown. But the notion that this election will fend off an authoritarian regime is incorrect. That regime is already in place.


Member
Posts: 11,757
Joined: Dec 17 2006
Gold: 0.00
Sep 21 2020 04:04pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 21 2020 04:58pm)


I stopped at: "President Donald Trump’s administration is consuming democratic capacity at about the same pace that wildfire has been destroying the West".

Looked like a Copy+Paste off reddit as an attempt to indoctrinate your friends into Orange Man Bad we must vote Dems at all costs.
Member
Posts: 53,368
Joined: Sep 2 2004
Gold: 57.00
Sep 21 2020 04:23pm
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1686687688689690983Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll