Vaccines were only effective if you redefine what the usual understanding of what a vaccine does. Typically people associate taking a vaccine with immunity, it was sold as that, only to find out that you could contract the virus again and again not even a few months later.

The argument at the time was even if you aren't in the cohort that is at risk, you should be forced to take it because it would make you immune and prevent you from giving it to the vulnerable, which of course proved to be completely untrue as fully vaccinated people continued to contract it anyways.

What are your thoughts on the democrats calling Trump racist for closing the border with China at the onset? Or democrats discouraging people from taking the vaccine because a vaccine developed under Trump surely can't be trusted?

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 6 2024 05:11pm

So you're admitting that the vaccine was effective at preventing deaths and serious illnesses for those who took it? But you call it ineffective because it didn't provide the immunity boost that was initially expected?

This was a disease which was killing several thousand Americans a week... the vaccine prevented serious disease and deaths for several thousands, and this sort of dopey vaccine hesitancy that you still parrot resulted in the deaths of several thousands of Americans.

Why does your need to be a contrarian dingbat override your concern for your fellow Americans? Serious question.

This post was edited by IceMage on Sep 6 2024 05:30pm

That's just not true. Just look at the seasonal flu vaccinations, which we have been doing every fall for decades without anyone claiming that they stop transmission or prevent infection.




The "experts" took a gamble with their messaging and it backfired spectacularly. Let's take a quick dive into the detailed timeline: the vaccines were developed and tested against the (very mildly mutated) Wuhan strain from Q1 and Q2 of 2020. By the time they were rolled out, in Q1-3 of 2021, the significantly mutated Alpha and Delta variants were in the process of becoming dominant. Various studies show that the vaccines did provide meaningful (albeit not full) protection against transmission and infection for the Wuhan strain, and that's what the messaging was fully focusing on because the "experts" wanted as many people as possible to take the vax. This was a gamble because we knew that new variants were taking over right as the vaccines were being rolled out, and that we didn't have data yet for their efficacy against these new variants. Turns out the protection against transmission and infection was significantly diminished against Alpha and almost non-existent against Delta.

So that's the major reason why the vaccines overpromised and underdelivered. Another reason is that certain pernicious, structural factors were setting us on this path. The public health establishment and mainstream politicians around the world had bet on a message of fear and caution to reach the desired level of compliance with covid restrictions. Therefore, the dangers of the virus had been exaggerated and too much of the debate had focused around this notion that any infection is dangerous and shall be prevented. China's zero covid strategy, as well as the ostensible success of related strategies in New Zealand and Australia, had contributed to this sentiment. So when the vaccine rollout began, it was kinda hard for the "experts" to admit that their previous rhetoric about "we must prevent every single infection at any cost" was overblown, which prompted them to gear their vaccine pitch toward the "you won't infect others anymore"-aspect and less toward the (more robust) "reduced risk of hospitalization or death".
Even more so since many younger folks weren't really afraid of dying from covid, so prioritizing the protection against transmission was the more effective message for someone wanting to achieve as high uptake among the populace as possible. The narrative about the vaccines which completely take the vaxxed persons out of the transmission chains was the face-saving way out of the No/Zero Covid deadend that many members of the public health community had maneuvered themselves into.



Every step of the way, the public health community and the liberal media were betting on the wrong horse ('No/Zero Covid' instead of common sense precautions, an overemphasis on masks, schools being closed far too long, hoping that the vaccines would reduce incidences instead of allowing us to live with the virus, sticking by covid restrictions and later by vaccine mandates long after their justification was obsolete) and using a disingenuous messaging which wasn't telling the full truth. It was a total disaster, led to a ton of needless covid deaths, vicious polarization between the two camps and an unsolved crisis which only disappeared when the Omikron variant arrived in late 2021. Omikron was so transmissible that trying to stop or mitigate its spread was completely hopeless, and so mild that stopping it was no longer necessary. Omikron finally allowed us to let the virus rip. If Delta had remained the dominant variant, we would have been so fucked...

And worst of all: not only has the botched handling of covid and the vaccines by the public health "experts" and their fellow travellers in the liberal media been a disaster and spurred a further erosion of trust in the media, experts and institutions in general, it has also allowed some of the stupidest, most conspiracy-driven groups to feel vindicated.


/rant

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 6 2024 05:42pm

There's a pretty clear understanding of what it means to take vast majority of vaccines, which most of us are mandated as kids, and the flu 'vaccine'. The efficacy of those vaccines and what they do is night and day of what the flu vaccine does. The covid vaccine was 100% sold as get it and you can get back to enjoying life because you're protected, not the flu 'vaccine' meaning of getting an annual shot that protects you against a few some of the more common strains but doesn't actually result in complete protection



You didn't answer either of my questions.

The authorities lied and got many things wrong about covid. Including origin, including gain of function research, including vaccine efficacy, and on and on and instead implemented unheard of draconian measures, that ultimately proved debatable at best as actually having worked. People were fired for refusing to take a shot, people got arrested/fined for going outside, we spent trillions and caused the highest inflation in 40 years with the response. Today prices on almost everything is up between 30+% in a few years, precisely because of the governmental response to covid. Why are you so bothered when people speak to power or point out faults that don't conform to what the mainstream media tells you to be concerned about?

Why did tens of thousands of Americans need to die because you and your cultish brethren need to lie about the efficacy of the COVID shot?

This post was edited by IceMage on Sep 6 2024 06:30pm

Still didn't answer my questions. Why did Democrats say to not trust a vaccine developed under Trump?

Uh... the vaccine that Trump helped propel was endorsed by health officials. Trump got vaccinated but didn't do so publicly. So why are we engaging in hypotheticals where the facts are different from that?

Her statement is basically "rely on the experts, not the politicians you like", which is sort of what I've been preaching these last few posts.

This post was edited by IceMage on Sep 6 2024 06:54pm

You parrot talking points that pretend the vaccine isn't effective and then ask about how Democrats undermined trust in the vaccine?

Bruh.

lol, are you incapable of answering a single question?