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Oct 5 2021 08:26pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 5 2021 07:15pm)
Democrats have quite a lot of popular policies on their agenda, in particular stuff from the playbook of classical, euro-style social democracy. Stuff like child tax credits, regulations on prescription drug prices, giving people more paid days off, raising taxes on large corporations and billionaires etc. On most other fields, their platform is 'super-aids which gives you cancer' though. If they focused on the popular policies and deemphasized the toxic stuff, they would have an electoral winner on their hands if you ask me.

It seems as if exactly this approach was Biden's electoral calculus for 2022 and beyond: do popular stuff to avoid the usual midterm backlash. But his party just can't help itself. Pharma shills like Sinema hold up the prescription drug regulation, House progressive stop the bipartisan roads-and-bridges bill to ram through their outrageously pricey slush fund for liberal priorities, Biden needlessly fucks up foreign policy, the border and his part in the vaccine rollout, Harris is a liability for whichever task she's assigned to, Dem governors like Newsom, Cuomo or Whitmer are gigantic hypocrites, and so on and forth.




Side note: It is, of course, not a coincidence that the party with more left-wing economic policies is saddled with a socio-political agenda which is a complete and total non-starter for wide swaths of the country. The donor class are making sure of that; them and the mainstream media also work hard to keep political conflict focused on non-economic culture wars issues which don't affect their bottom line and on which the electorate is almost perfectly split.


Before I respond to the rest of your post...how do you reconcile the bold lol? They are exactly the same thing!
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Oct 5 2021 09:05pm
Quote (thundercock @ 5 Oct 2021 21:50)
What makes you think that the electorate will reward Democrats if they come up with sensible policy? It seems to me that fear of the other, wedge issues, etc. are more important than actual policy.

like what? requiring transparency into drug prices? price negotiable medicine prescriptions? Trump’s idea - which makes it russian collusion!
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Oct 5 2021 09:07pm
Quote (excellence @ Oct 5 2021 08:05pm)
like what? requiring transparency into drug prices? price negotiable medicine prescriptions? Trump’s idea - which makes it russian collusion!


If Trump did it, I don't see Democrats/Left leaning Independents voting for him. Likewise, if Biden gets it done, I don't see Republicans/Right leaning Independents voting for him.
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Oct 5 2021 09:38pm
Quote (excellence @ Oct 5 2021 11:05pm)
like what? requiring transparency into drug prices? price negotiable medicine prescriptions? Trump’s idea - which makes it russian collusion!


They'll never do that. Trump tried that in 2020 and big pharma paid billions for the media and entertainment to defame him treacherously.
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Oct 5 2021 09:43pm
Quote (thundercock @ 6 Oct 2021 04:26)
Before I respond to the rest of your post...how do you reconcile the bold lol? They are exactly the same thing!


No they are not, lol? Climate spending, repealing the Hyde amendment or de facto subsidies for community colleges are not the same thing as establishing/strengthening the social safety net for families and working-class people.

To add insult to injury, you also have the Dem congresspeople who represent upscale suburbs and are hell-bent on revoking the $10k cap on SALT deductions introduced by the Trump tax bill from 2017.
If Dems got their way and the Senate parlamentarian hadn't put a stop on it, they would also have included a pathway to citizenship in this bill. (Regardless of the pros and cons of a pathway, what the fuck does that kind of provision have to do in a budget bill?!)
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Oct 5 2021 10:03pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 5 Oct 2021 23:43)
No they are not, lol? Climate spending, repealing the Hyde amendment or de facto subsidies for community colleges are not the same thing as establishing/strengthening the social safety net for families and working-class people.

To add insult to injury, you also have the Dem congresspeople who represent upscale suburbs and are hell-bent on revoking the $10k cap on SALT deductions introduced by the Trump tax bill from 2017.
If Dems got their way and the Senate parlamentarian hadn't put a stop on it, they would also have included a pathway to citizenship in this bill. (Regardless of the pros and cons of a pathway, what the fuck does that kind of provision have to do in a budget bill?!)

more citizens to tax at increasingly aggressive rates
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Oct 5 2021 10:15pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 5 2021 08:43pm)
No they are not, lol? Climate spending, repealing the Hyde amendment or de facto subsidies for community colleges are not the same thing as establishing/strengthening the social safety net for families and working-class people.

To add insult to injury, you also have the Dem congresspeople who represent upscale suburbs and are hell-bent on revoking the $10k cap on SALT deductions introduced by the Trump tax bill from 2017.
If Dems got their way and the Senate parlamentarian hadn't put a stop on it, they would also have included a pathway to citizenship in this bill. (Regardless of the pros and cons of a pathway, what the fuck does that kind of provision have to do in a budget bill?!)


You're right about the climate spending but that's a relatively small portion of the bill. The largest chunk of the cost is the child tax credit, followed by Medicare expansion (ensuring old people get dental, vision, and hearing), and then universal Pre-K. Subsidies for community colleges IS strengthening working-class people. Who do you think attends them? I'll give you a hint: it's not the rich! You can't have it both ways though. You either support strengthening the welfare state (which costs money) or you'd rather save money and give the working class the finger. You know where I stand: fuck the working class. But to call it an "outrageously pricey slush fund for liberal priorities" is really unfair when your socialist ass supports the most expensive provisions in the bill!

As for the pathway to citizenship, it has nothing to do with the budget. That's why the parliamentarian ruled the way she did...I really don't fault the Democrats for TRYING because the GOP did similar things under Trump. Acting is part of the job.
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Oct 5 2021 10:38pm
Quote (thundercock @ Oct 5 2021 11:15pm)
I really don't fault the Democrats for TRYING because the GOP did similar things under Trump. Acting is part of the job.


Nah, the GOP just straight up ignored the parlimentarian under Trump.

Honestly it's a stupid position anyway. They aren't elected and can be fired by the majority leader at any time.
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Oct 5 2021 10:43pm
Quote (thundercock @ 6 Oct 2021 06:15)
You're right about the climate spending but that's a relatively small portion of the bill. The largest chunk of the cost is the child tax credit, followed by Medicare expansion (ensuring old people get dental, vision, and hearing), and then universal Pre-K. Subsidies for community colleges IS strengthening working-class people. Who do you think attends them? I'll give you a hint: it's not the rich! You can't have it both ways though. You either support strengthening the welfare state (which costs money) or you'd rather save money and give the working class the finger. You know where I stand: fuck the working class. But to call it an "outrageously pricey slush fund for liberal priorities" is really unfair when your socialist ass supports the most expensive provisions in the bill!

As for the pathway to citizenship, it has nothing to do with the budget. That's why the parliamentarian ruled the way she did...I really don't fault the Democrats for TRYING because the GOP did similar things under Trump. Acting is part of the job.


Community colleges make for dope TV series, but are pretty useless when it comes to helping careers. This money should go into actual vocational training rather than a watered down degree whose academic level stands barely above that of high school... at a time when even BSc's are increasingly not cutting it anymore in many fields. What the spending on community colleges would do, however, is subsidize their teachers and personnel, which - like all teachers and professors - are an incredibly Dem-leaning demographic.


My gripe is not just with general programs into which Dems want to pour money, it's also with the scope and indiscriminate nature of the spending. Rich parents (say those with a family income above $120k) don't need child tax credits or state-funded pre-K. Entitlements for paid days off would be enough, no need to introduce generous paid family leave.

Dems are trying to hook not just the working- and lower-middle class but everyone onto these programs. This is wrong on economic justice grounds (dito for the proposed repeal of the SALT deduction cap), but also carries the risk of backfiring. Indiscriminately showering everyone in money will only exacerbate the already alarming inflation. You know who suffers the most from surging inflation? It's not the rich. By being too reckless with their spending, Dems risk triggering an inflation which eats up the benefits of their bill for the poor and working-class, flipping the net impact of the bill on its head.
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Oct 5 2021 10:44pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Oct 5 2021 09:38pm)
Nah, the GOP just straight up ignored the parlimentarian under Trump.

Honestly it's a stupid position anyway. They aren't elected and can be fired by the majority leader at any time.


The Senate rules are complicated. I think it's important to have someone who relatively unbiased who can ensure that everyone is following the rules. Otherwise, what's the point of having rules?
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