Quote (El1te @ Jan 4 2024 09:54pm)

That is very admirable of you. His statement is true as that is the ideal for all of us and resonates with being persecuted. It also doesn't apply to pacifism, because being perfect would be saving an innocent life from a killer, not letting them be slaughtered (when you had the power to save them) on a pacifist principle. But remember that is the viewpoint of one pastor - there are a ton of "ultra"-MAGA pastors out there and also more wacky ones.
As I said before Jesus never preached pacifism. He Himself never partook in any violence because it was not His mission, nor was it ever a necessary part of His mission. He Himself was pacifistic is something everyone knows, but as I said before only a small minority of Christian sects interpret scripture to mean that they themselves should be pacifists. There was also many more ascetic pacifist sects/groups that were destroyed in the inquisitions such as the Waldensians. The vast majority of sects are not pacifist.
Then the spin-off religion of Islam got rid of pacifism all together.
The sword is a universal symbol and word for violence and bloodshed - your interpretation again here is contemptable. At this time in history, the dominant weapon of war was the double-edged shortsword. Gladius, Seax, Xiphos.
You seem to be saying that the only "true" Christianity is asceticism.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 4 2024 08:04pm)

You only need to read scripture, and when you find a mention of a sword, look at the context.

Jesus does not ever to my knowledge command his people to be armed for the purpose of self defense, or to do violence, even when they are struck or attacked or met with evil. Contrary to that, in multiple places he makes explicit mention that you should avoid it even when you are endangered.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 4 2024 08:04pm)

You only need to read scripture, and when you find a mention of a sword, look at the context.

Jesus does not ever to my knowledge command his people to be armed for the purpose of self defense, or to do violence, even when they are struck or attacked or met with evil. Contrary to that, in multiple places he makes explicit mention that you should avoid it even when you are endangered.

Quote (El1te @ Jan 5 2024 12:21am)

The quote literally says I have not come to bring peace but a sword. You can't just take a word out of context and apply it everywhere. This is beyond unhinged you're just trolling at this point.

No shit you should avoid violence when you're endangered that's common sense.

Quote (El1te @ Jan 5 2024 02:21am)

The quote literally says I have not come to bring peace but a sword. You can't just take a word out of context and apply it everywhere. This is beyond unhinged you're just trolling at this point.

No shit you should avoid violence when you're endangered that's common sense.

Quote

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Quote

“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!”

Quote

Jesus appeared to teach pacifism during his ministry when he told his disciples:[19]

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

— Matthew 5:38–39[20]

Quote (theCrossbones @ Jan 4 2024 07:23pm)

what is your context. Please post actual thoughts.
Thx

Quote (El1te @ Jan 4 2024 07:54pm)

That is very admirable of you. His statement is true as that is the ideal for all of us and resonates with being persecuted. It also doesn't apply to pacifism, because being perfect would be saving an innocent life from a killer, not letting them be slaughtered (when you had the power to save them) on a pacifist principle. But remember that is the viewpoint of one pastor - there are a ton of "ultra"-MAGA pastors out there and also more wacky ones.

As I said before Jesus never preached pacifism. He Himself never partook in any violence because it was not His mission, nor was it ever a necessary part of His mission. That He Himself was pacifistic is something everyone knows, but as I said before only a small minority of Christian sects interpret scripture to mean that they themselves should be pacifists. There was also many more ascetic pacifist sects/groups that were destroyed in the inquisitions such as the Waldensians. The vast majority of sects are not pacifist.

Then the spin-off religion of Islam got rid of pacifism all together.

The sword is a universal symbol and word for violence and bloodshed - your interpretation again here is contemptable. At this time in history, the dominant weapon of war was the double-edged shortsword. Gladius, Seax, Xiphos.

You seem to be saying that the only "true" Christianity is asceticism.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 4 2024 07:29pm)

I went because I was curious. Even then, that Jesus was an idealistic pacifist was not a controversial opinion. The pastor's refrain was something to the effect of "Jesus asks us to be unrealistic because being perfect means you don't bend to the world. It's not supposed to be easy".

Jesus was absolutely unambiguously a pacifist in the bible, and expected his followers to be pacifists as well.

He knew they would die. He knew they wouldn't be able to defend themselves. They were expected to either be protected by God as a result of their extreme levels of faith (if their faith was strong enough they could literally move mountains, remember?), or die and have their faith be rewarded by God in heaven.

Jesus often used swords as metaphore for conflict. In the scripture Bogie brought up, where he says he didn't come to bring peace but a sword, the sword is not an example of his own holy army charging an enemy. It was that his message would bring conflict and turn family members who believed in him against family members who didn't.

You really have to bend over backwards to get the interpretation that Jesus expected you to be armed out of his teachings.

Quote (YeeHaw @ Jan 5 2024 04:26am)

So here on this forum, users may choose to click the quote button. Doing so allows another user’s quote to be in the post, making responding to direct quotes much easier to keep track of and understand.

Quote (El1te @ Jan 4 2024 10:21pm)

The quote literally says I have not come to bring peace but a sword. You can't just take a word out of context and apply it everywhere. This is beyond unhinged you're just trolling at this point.

No shit you should avoid violence when you're endangered that's common sense.

Quote (gnarjay @ Jan 5 2024 01:19pm)

the bible is not supposed to be taken literally, you really need to think and interpret a lot of it. why do so many christians not realize this?