The profiteering directly goes to feed the military industrial complex. Who do you think supplies all the equipment?

We would just be brokering the deal between private companies and foreign governments. That's basically all an arms sale boils down to.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Sep 8 2020 09:31am

You're hung up on words while missing the point of what Trump talked about when it comes to this issues. Why do you keep going back to a phrase while refusing to take in the nuance?

Again,

Selling guns = good for US because of $ coming in
Having troops all over the world = not good because US $ going out.

The Pentagon has slow walked the withdrawal of US troops. Former administration members like Bolton admit they've done the same. Why are your expectations so low for a guy you support?

To be clear, I'm glad Trump is being slow walked. But if I were a non-interventionist, I'd be pissed. If Trump withdrew all our forces in Afghanistan before the election, practically no American is going to want a future president to go back in. That applies to other countries in the Middle East as well. Trump had a real opportunity to adjust our war footing and he's squandered it.



Yeah. I thought the non-interventionist view went beyond just the economics. I suppose now they're cool losing US troops if they're being paid by the host countries? Lol.

This really shows just how elementary and facile the argument is. As if fueling conflicts around the world with weapons, and withdrawing stabilizing troops from key allies, inevitably leads to long-term economic gain for the United States.

I mean I think you're right... Trump thinks this way. But it's completely absurd.

In life we can't always get 100% of what we want. I would want most troops home and us not to be selling guns to scumbags like the Saudis. However i'm a realist and realize that won't happen. So i support any effort towards my goal instead of having a two dimensional world view in which if i don't get all i want i 'm doing a 180.

You're criticism is pretty dumb honestly, he hasn't escalated a single conflict and has actually scaled down our involvement almost everywhere, and somehow i should support the other side which has been critical of this because he hasn't achieved 100% of my non-interventionist goals? lol

Also fuck the stabilizing allies point. Americans don't want standing armies in places indefinitely. It's been like 20 years in Afghanistan, people are sick of the constant excuses why we need to be there indefinitely.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 8 2020 09:50am

Why do you always think tribally? I'm not even bringing up the other side... I'm simply arguing that Trump has failed to deliver. Admitting that he's been a disappointment on a certain issues doesn't mean you support Biden, lol.

He sent arms to Ukraine. He initially increased troop levels in Afghanistan. He's increased troop levels in the Middle East to respond to Iranian action. Even so, is the status quo supposed to be the expectation for the guy who campaigned on ending stupid wars?

I couldn't care less what Americans want. Americans are morons. It's important to distinguish Afghanistan from South Korea. I'm far more open to pulling out of Afghanistan.

This post was edited by IceMage on Sep 8 2020 09:56am

His 'failure to deliver' happened because of the constant opposition, that's an important distinction. There's a difference between a politician that says he'll do something then largely failing because both his party and the opposing party are in unison against that position and someone that doesn't even try.

He tried, in some cases he succeeded in other he was delayed, but he tried. That's important to someone like me. The president in our country doesn't have absolute power, something you guys repeatedly forget in trying to cast blame on Trump for so much shit.

There was opposition? Well shit that's news to me. This is truly a unique problem that only Trump has faced and could not in any way have been maneuvered around, negotiated with, or otherwise taken into account when making promises or plans.

Oh, Trump also has barely utilized the state department, which is another important factor in pulling troops out because it makes it far harder to coordinate with our allies to compensate.

This is an area where Trump has complete authority... he doesn't have to garner any votes on Capitol Hill to pull out of Afghanistan. It's an issue where his propagandists and base are with him. Many Democrats support leaving. Some Republicans like Rand Paul and Josh Hawley support leaving. This isn't a tough decision politically.

It's actually kind of funny... Trump has every incentive to leave. Yet he listens to his military advisers and stays.

This post was edited by IceMage on Sep 8 2020 10:29am

amazing how he only ever cares about the opinion of others when you people are trying to rationalise why he doesn't do the things he promised to do, lol. funny how that works...

seriously, have you already forgotten how he basically acted like a representative of your 'defence' industry, trying to sell american arms to europe, saudi-arabia, south korea, japan... or how he insisted on ramping up america's nuclear arsenal? it's almost like his anti-war rhetoric is just meat for his base, and in reality he does what he always does: make quick bucks out of 'business' opportunities without considering the long term consequences...