d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > October Invasion Of Israel
Prev16616626636646651176Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 14,428
Joined: Oct 12 2021
Gold: 80.00
Nov 27 2023 02:07pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 27 2023 11:55am)
right, but isn't the tl;dr of that logic "israel is committing genocide by wanting to commit genocide, even though they cant commit genocide"?

im just confused when "commit genocide" changed from "attempting to eliminate a certain population or ethnic group from the planet" to "wanting to kill a certain ethnic group, whether you can or cannot".

to be completely fair, i wouldnt challenge the statement that israeli hard liners have "genocidal wishes", wouldn't even really contend that they have "genocidal intent", but are "committing genocide"?

did hitler start committing genocide when he was writing Mein Kampf? or did he start when the night of broken windows was carried out? or was it when he built the camps and started to kill 90% of the jews as they left the trains?


argue with the ICC if you want. I've laid out clearly that genocide as defined by the 2002 rome statute by the ICC is intent combined with demonstrated ability. Both have been established for Israel. Nazi Germany was an especially egregious example, but we can't just wait until things get *that* bad to start calling it a genocide. Forced relocation, collective punishment, systematic bombing of civilians, and constant rhetoric of erasure are all factored in.
Member
Posts: 91,061
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,504.69
Nov 27 2023 02:22pm
Quote (celloboy126 @ Nov 27 2023 02:07pm)
argue with the ICC if you want. I've laid out clearly that genocide as defined by the 2002 rome statute by the ICC is intent combined with demonstrated ability. Both have been established for Israel. Nazi Germany was an especially egregious example, but we can't just wait until things get *that* bad to start calling it a genocide. Forced relocation, collective punishment, systematic bombing of civilians, and constant rhetoric of erasure are all factored in.


Quote
Article 6
Genocide
For the purpose of this Statute, "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to
destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction
in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


firstly, i'd say the above definition is so loose it loses its meaning. genocide as a label is supposed to have a very strong meaning, its a dire crime against humanity. calling "killing members of a group" genocide means many thousands of genocides happen every year. water it down that much and it loses effectiveness linguistically.

but really i think the bolded presents my disagreement best. "genocide" isnt a thought criime, or prediction of the future that you drop. its a term that represents present and past. its not that u wait to call out bad deeds, that's a good thing to do early and often. its that genocide either is or isnt, it has or hasnt happened.

by this definition west bank palestinians and gazan palestinians are committing genocide. even with a severe power imbalance. this definition isnt like modern racism definitions which invalidate the label based on power dynamics.
Member
Posts: 14,428
Joined: Oct 12 2021
Gold: 80.00
Nov 27 2023 02:27pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 27 2023 12:22pm)
firstly, i'd say the above definition is so loose it loses its meaning. genocide as a label is supposed to have a very strong meaning, its a dire crime against humanity. calling "killing members of a group" genocide means many thousands of genocides happen every year. water it down that much and it loses effectiveness linguistically.

but really i think the bolded presents my disagreement best. "genocide" isnt a thought criime, or prediction of the future that you drop. its a term that represents present and past. its not that u wait to call out bad deeds, that's a good thing to do early and often. its that genocide either is or isnt, it has or hasnt happened.

by this definition west bank palestinians and gazan palestinians are committing genocide. even with a severe power imbalance. this definition isnt like modern racism definitions which invalidate the label based on power dynamics.


even though the Hamas charter calls for killing all jewish people, it only demonstrates intent, not capacity to do so. Why do I have to hand hold you through this >.< I was clear in my original post. You need two things! intent, and demonstrated ability, to erase a people. I'm done here, you can bark at the wind if you want. This is not interesting, sorry.
Member
Posts: 4,145
Joined: Jun 30 2022
Gold: 4.91
Warn: 10%
Nov 27 2023 02:29pm
The reddit mob has been angered by facts and logic, shocking development.
Member
Posts: 91,061
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,504.69
Nov 27 2023 02:30pm
Quote (celloboy126 @ Nov 27 2023 02:27pm)
even though the Hamas charter calls for killing all jewish people, it only demonstrates intent, not capacity to do so. Why do I have to hand hold you through this >.< I was clear in my original post. You need two things! intent, and demonstrated ability, to erase a people. I'm done here, you can bark at the wind if you want. This is not interesting, sorry.


you cited a statute that clearly states they dont need the demonstrate the capacity to kill ALL of the group, just some of the group, such as hmmm october 7th.

perhaps you should hold your own hand.

starting to see why that definition is far too loose?
Member
Posts: 19,619
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,517.50
Nov 27 2023 02:35pm
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Nov 27 2023 08:29pm)
The reddit mob has been angered by facts and logic, shocking development.


Canadian hates the United States but remains irrelevant. Shocking.
Member
Posts: 4,145
Joined: Jun 30 2022
Gold: 4.91
Warn: 10%
Nov 27 2023 02:47pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Nov 27 2023 04:35pm)
Canadian hates the United States but remains irrelevant. Shocking.

Certainly not as relevant as Scotland :rofl:
Member
Posts: 19,619
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,517.50
Nov 27 2023 02:59pm
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Nov 27 2023 08:47pm)
Certainly not as relevant as Scotland :rofl:


You are correct for once! Canada is not as relevant!
Pay homage to our king subject :D
Member
Posts: 91,061
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,504.69
Nov 27 2023 03:00pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Nov 27 2023 02:59pm)
You are correct for once! Canada is not as relevant!
Pay homage to our king subject :D


off topic, but do you support scotland leaving the UK?
Member
Posts: 19,619
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,517.50
Nov 27 2023 03:00pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 27 2023 09:00pm)
off topic, but do you support scotland leaving the UK?


Do you support it?
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev16616626636646651176Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll