"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Matthew 6:2 NIV

Please tell me that I do not need to explain that to you.



So that is where Confucius comes from. Sounds like a good person indeed. Reminds me of the kind of man Job was in a way.

Socrates, a Greek philosopher. It is funny how the first thing that pops up is the Socratic problem, when I read his biography.

Very good stand-outs indeed. Are they people you look towards to save your soul though?

ever read Socrates and Jesus compared by joseph priestly? I was thinking about picking a copy up, but ive herd its quite bias twrds jesus.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on May 16 2013 03:07am

It draws attention to spend billions of dollars on charity, and the overhead for these people is small, particularly advertising, as they don't do any, unlike some groups that spend more money advertising than for charity (e.g. I saw a commercial of a baseball player donating $100 for every home run he hit this year -- this is going to be probably no more than $40k, which I think has to be not much more than the commercial cost.)

Doctors Without Borders doesn't announce projects loudly at all.



No, Buddha and Confucius are different people. I phrased that somewhat weirdly. I didn't actually give details on Confucius (I don't know much about him). The rest was about Buddha.



Again, I don't understand why an exemplar is necessary. The arguments and teachings exist regardless of whether they're originally from Socrates or Plato.

Multiple people attribute teachings to Socrates though -- Plato, Xenophon, Aristophanes. Plato and Xenophon at least were supposed to have known him personally, Xenophon is a well-known figure to history (once a military leader, but became a historian in later life) also known by contemporaries, and the dialogues including Socrates were with other people we know are real (they have writings), e.g. Protagoras, Parmenides, etc. Many of the works including Socrates were written during his alleged life span as well.



I don't see evidence of the existence of souls. Further, that's irrelevant to the question of whether these people ever did good.

no, there is a $0.99 ebook on Amazon...

This post was edited by N1ccolo on May 16 2013 02:30pm

Then they have received their reward in full. Remember that God doesn't care how much you donate, he cares more about how you donate from the heart.



Yeah I did get a bit confused there.



An exemplar is somebody to look forward to. They set the 'standard' and you need to try your best to reach that standard. Even though you know that you cannot reach that standard and that we have all fallen short. We still try to meet that standard.
Here is somebody who lived the perfect life. Teaching us how we should live and treat each other. He came down to us in human form so that we could understand and relate to him.

Forgive my very bazaar example but if you want to tell an ant that it is heading towards danger, the only way to tell the ant is to become an ant. You could also pick up the ant and move it away but how often would you be doing that?
The point is, God sent us his son down in human form to warn us and teach us. He became the exemplar that we can understand and try to reach that standard. That is why we need an exemplar.



So that means death is the end of it all then? Death is the very worst thing that could ever happen to you because after that there is nothing.
That being said, you must make the most of this life because this is all there is.

That pathway leads to a certain dead end. What happens if you're wrong, where would you end up?

Found it online for free, pretty good read so far

http://archive.org/stream/socratesjesuscom00prieuoft/socratesjesuscom00prieuoft_djvu.txt

The hundreds or thousands saved lives don't count? What kind of sorry excuse of a definition of the good doesn't allow that to be good. I didn't say there's any debt owed to them, I said that they did good, and you said no atheists ever do good. Also, I can't imagine an individual choosing to give billions of dollars in humanitarian aid with nothing donated "from the heart." Why not just re-invest it if there's no goodwill toward those to whom you're donating.



What if the perfect person never existed? Could there not be an ideal without an embodiment? Consider circles -- there's literally no such thing as a perfect circle in reality, but the ideal remains.



You're arguing about how an exemplar is helpful -- not that an exemplar is necessary for a system of morality.



There is the future for others. Believe it or not, non-religious people can and have came up with reasons for accepting death without the promise of an afterlife. Non-religious people join militaries, so why would they do this if what you say is how they behave?

Matthew 6:1-4 NIV
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Mark 12:41-44 NIV
41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

Yeah don't point out that I replied with only Bible verses, I am aware of that.



If the perfect person, Jesus, never existed then there was no sacrifice for all of humankind. That would mean that Satan would still have power over us and we would be cut off from God without any relationship.

If there is no God and this life is all we have, then what is the meaning of life if we're going to live 70ish years at the most and time would continue forever more? Wouldn't it be better to prolong your birth if you could because of technology 200 years from now?

I say prolong because it is no secret that humans are always advancing in technology. Compare what is being said in the Bible where they had to walk everywhere and they could only tell the time by the sun itself. Look at where we are now and where we are going.

What I am saying is that no matter how far they did go in life and how rich they were back then, it compares to nothing with what we have right now. Yet from this logic the same will be for those that are going to be around 2000 years from now.



An exemplar makes it so much easier for a system of morality because you have a walking, talking example of how you should live and what rewards will come.



Everybody is different. TBH with me personally I wouldn't fear death unless it was a certain kind of death. If it was a sacrificial death in which I would go out in a blaze of glory then I'd embrace it. As a matter of fact that is how I would like to go out, in a blaze of glory.

I'm not sure what it is for you though, how you view death.

So what if they're rich or 'trumpet' their charity? If you were rich and you wanted to give to charity, would it not be enough? Would it not be out of the goodness of your heart?