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Sep 8 2021 02:07pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 8 2021 03:54pm)
so 'unity' was really just shorthand for 'unilateralism'?
I guess that was just Biden's stutter again


I view it as pragmatic unity... reaching out when it makes sense, while understanding more than half the GOP(politicians and voters) don't even believe he won the election. Those politicians use the word unity as a cudgel to attack Biden whenever he does something they don't like, even though a large majority of voters do.
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Sep 8 2021 02:13pm
Quote (IceMage @ Sep 8 2021 03:07pm)
I view it as pragmatic unity... reaching out when it makes sense, while understanding more than half the GOP(politicians and voters) don't even believe he won the election. Those politicians use the word unity as a cudgel to attack Biden whenever he does something they don't like, even though a large majority of voters do.


I view it as orwellian doublespeak. What you're describing is the exact opposite of unity. Its like saying you make peace with your enemies by making your enemies into pieces.
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Sep 8 2021 02:16pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 8 2021 01:04pm)
The democrats can't even get unity in their party on it. They can't even agree on Republicans about what "infrastructure" is, since it looks a whole lot like 3.5 trillion dollars worth of social programs


I think you're confused. There are two separate bills: one is traditional infrastructure that has broad bipartisan support and the other is a social spending bill that will pass via budget reconciliation.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 8 2021 01:06pm)
Are you talking about the "infrastructure as in roads and bridges"-bill which was passed by the Senate with bipartisan(!!) support and is currently held up by the Dem-controlled House?
Or are you talking about the "infrastructure as in 'slush fund for social spending that we label infrastructure coz that term polls better'"-bill which Democrats are currently trying to unilaterally ram through via reconciliation?


Do you really need to ask that question?
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Sep 8 2021 02:26pm
Quote (thundercock @ Sep 8 2021 03:16pm)
I think you're confused. There are two separate bills: one is traditional infrastructure that has broad bipartisan support and the other is a social spending bill that will pass via budget reconciliation.


The progressives repeatedly label the house's bill as an infrastructure bill, with even Biden himself tagging it the 'human infrastructure bill' and saying the two bills are intertwined.
There really aren't two separate bills at this point, not as long a Manchin draws breath.
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Sep 8 2021 02:27pm
Quote (thundercock @ 8 Sep 2021 22:16)
Do you really need to ask that question?


Well, they gave the somewhat sensible and restrained $1tr traditional infrastructure bill bipartisan support. I'm not under the impression that this bipartisanship was appreciated in the slightest by the Biden admin, Pelosi or the liberal media.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 8 2021 02:28pm
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Sep 8 2021 02:33pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 8 2021 01:27pm)
Well, they gave the somewhat sensible and restrained $1tr traditional infrastructure bill bipartisan support. I'm not under the impression that this bipartisanship was appreciated in the slightest by the Biden admin, Pelosi or the liberal media.


Is this a joke? It's literally going to be the thing that the administration refers to in terms of unity and accomplishments. The Biden administration won't shut up about it. People like AOC are going to be upset but so what? I think you're deeply out of touch here...
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Sep 8 2021 02:44pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 8 2021 04:01pm)
So... what would unity look like to you, given this environment? Do you want to see Republicans rolling over and completely submitting to the Democratic agenda in order to atone for the "sins" of the Trump era before actual unity becomes an option again?


The American people chose to give the Presidency, House, and Senate to the Democrats, and the major things Biden has done have not contradicted his plans from the campaign, so really it's more of a responsibility for Republicans to work with the other side. Infrastructure is an area where that happened.

Although I'd like to see Republicans start with the basics, like acknowledging without reservation Biden beat Trump, and to stop pretending Biden is presiding over the Communist takeover of America. I'm not that offended by people like Ben Sasse who stick to their conservative beliefs on policy, because he doesn't enflame the right-wing nutters.

Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 8 2021 04:13pm)
I view it as orwellian doublespeak. What you're describing is the exact opposite of unity. Its like saying you make peace with your enemies by making your enemies into pieces.


1. There's many Republicans who are Trumpist, insurrectionist lunatics, and some happen to be on government boards.
2. Republicans support bad ideas that are unpopular.

Your position seems to be that if Biden agrees with point 1 and 2, and takes appropriate action in these areas, his message of unity is hopelessly contradicted. I don't see it that way. Yes, not every action he takes will make Republican politicians happy, and there's priorities beyond unity with Republican politicians.
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Sep 8 2021 03:07pm
Quote (thundercock @ 8 Sep 2021 22:33)
Is this a joke? It's literally going to be the thing that the administration refers to in terms of unity and accomplishments. The Biden administration won't shut up about it. People like AOC are going to be upset but so what? I think you're deeply out of touch here...

Biden will refer to it to pad his own bipartisan credentials, sure. This does not automatically imply that his approach to policy-making ("either you're on board with my agenda or you can get fucked") and staffing ("purge the trumpists") will change. At the moment, it doesn't look like his opinion of Republicans as "bad faith actors who should be maneuvered around whenever possible" has been affected at all. (I'm not necessarily saying that this sentiment is wrong...)


Quote (IceMage @ 8 Sep 2021 22:44)
The American people chose to give the Presidency, House, and Senate to the Democrats, and the major things Biden has done have not contradicted his plans from the campaign, so really it's more of a responsibility for Republicans to work with the other side.


During the campaign, Biden promised that under him, the adults in the room would finally be in charge again. What we got was the Afghanistan fiasco.
He also promised to get covid under control. He didn't. And the vaccine campaign has failed to convince noteworthy amounts of the holdouts. And the CDC, under the director he nominated, has flip flopped a ton and squandered a lot of its remaining credibility.
During the Dem primary, Biden promised moderation on wokeness and migration. In office, he created a mess at the border and oversaw record-setting levels of border crossings. Meanwhile, his administration tries to push CRT in schools and the public sector as much as possible while talking about 'systemic racism' nonstop in speeches, bills and press releases.

And last but not least, he promised that he would bring the American people (not: Democratic and Republican lawmakers!) together again. Instead, the country remains as fiercely divided as it was when he took office and I'm seeing very little effort by him to actually change that.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 8 2021 03:10pm
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Sep 8 2021 03:38pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 8 2021 04:07pm)
Biden will refer to it to pad his own bipartisan credentials, sure. This does not automatically imply that his approach to policy-making ("either you're on board with my agenda or you can get fucked") and staffing ("purge the trumpists") will change. At the moment, it doesn't look like his opinion of Republicans as "bad faith actors who should be maneuvered around whenever possible" has been affected at all. (I'm not necessarily saying that this sentiment is wrong...)

During the campaign, Biden promised that under him, the adults in the room would finally be in charge again. What we got was the Afghanistan fiasco.
He also promised to get covid under control. He didn't. And the vaccine campaign has failed to convince noteworthy amounts of the holdouts. And the CDC, under the director he nominated, has flip flopped a ton and squandered a lot of its remaining credibility.
During the Dem primary, Biden promised moderation on wokeness and migration. In office, he created a mess at the border and oversaw record-setting levels of border crossings. Meanwhile, his administration tries to push CRT in schools and the public sector as much as possible while talking about 'systemic racism' nonstop in speeches, bills and press releases.

And last but not least, he promised that he would bring the American people (not: Democratic and Republican lawmakers!) together again. Instead, the country remains as fiercely divided as it was when he took office and I'm seeing very little effort by him to actually change that.


Literally the only thing on your list that can fall on Biden is Afghanistan.

Biden can't make Republicans stop being corrupt shit-lords that make mask mandates illegal, Biden can't stop the right from lieing about CRT and idiots like you lapping up the propaganda, Biden received record border crossings that were up nearly 100% YoY from Trump.

This is why I make fun of you for lapping up propaganda. You are literally going out of your way to make excuses for Republicans so you can blame Biden.
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Sep 8 2021 03:50pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 8 2021 02:07pm)
Biden will refer to it to pad his own bipartisan credentials, sure. This does not automatically imply that his approach to policy-making ("either you're on board with my agenda or you can get fucked") and staffing ("purge the trumpists") will change. At the moment, it doesn't look like his opinion of Republicans as "bad faith actors who should be maneuvered around whenever possible" has been affected at all. (I'm not necessarily saying that this sentiment is wrong...)


I think that's a pretty gross interpretation of the Biden administration. If that was the case, a lot of his cabinet members wouldn't have received majority support from Senate Republicans. Maybe you're just jaded with how Trump ran things and are projecting. Like, I understand WHY Biden needs to be painted as a hateful tyrant but I don't think it's going to convince the people who occupy the center.

I think Biden and the administration are on pretty good terms with several GOP Senators. The House is another story. I imagine everyone hates House Republicans including several members of the Senate GOP.
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