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Jan 11 2020 07:58pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Jan 11 2020 05:18pm)
The Iran deal was weak and once we withdrew from it, it was obvious how big of a lie it was that all they want is nuclear power. If all you want is nuclear power, even after the US withdrew you could have kept the course to get nuclear power, as in adhere to the heavy water requirements or not build centrifuges used to enrich weapons grade. If that would of happen and all the international experts could confirm and we wouldn't have ground to sanction them. Instead they do those things.

They will never get nukes and they should never get nukes. A country in which elected members and the whole population for that matter chants 'death to Israel' and vows to destroy them should never be allowed to have nukes.


Um...they did keep course for quite a while actually. It seems to me that the US were instigators in this scenario by imposing nuclear related sanctions on Iran. Start from May 27, 2016:
https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheet/Timeline-of-Nuclear-Diplomacy-With-Iran
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action#Breach_of_uranium_enrichment_limit

I agree that the deal was weak...but it's the best deal we could get. Sometimes a mediocre at best deal is better than no deal at all. That's just the reality we live in.

I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to have nukes. I'm just saying that it makes perfect sense for the regime to try and get them.
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Jan 11 2020 08:00pm
Quote (fender @ Jan 11 2020 08:41pm)
iran actually did that. they kept adhering to the conditions of the deal - even after trump pulled out, and still america imposed additional crippling sanctions on them. funny how facts have a habit of getting in the way of those silly narratives that are trying to justify america's actions in the middle east...

also, why is a deal that demonstrably stopped iran's whole nuclear program 'weak'? that deal was more than any reasonable and realistic person could have expected, so i would really like to hear an argument based in the real world as to why it was 'weak'. 'because obama made it' might be a common sentiment amongst you people, but that doesn't mean it holds any merit.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/451610-five-things-to-know-about-irans-breaches-of-the-nuclear-deal

Quote
Iran is set to breach the 2015 nuclear deal for a second time in as many weeks as it ramps up its demands for sanctions relief.

The country broke a key limit set by the nuclear deal for the first time days ago, stockpiling more low-enriched uranium than it is allowed to. Now, Tehran is vowing to follow through Sunday on its threat to increase the level of enrichment of its uranium — a more serious breach that some experts say will bring Iran closer to obtaining a nuclear weapon.

The moves are adding volatility to an already precarious situation in the Middle East, where U.S.-Iran tensions remain at a fever pitch.

Quote
The news was not unexpected. Iran announced in May it was quadrupling its uranium production capacity and announced in mid-June it would exceed the stockpile limit by the end of the month.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768
Quote
Iran Breaches the Nuclear Deal and UN Resolutions for Third Time
05/15/2016 02:09 am ET Updated Dec 06, 2017

Quote
Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement for the third time since the nuclear deal went into effect in January 2016. Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles.

In October and November, just after the nuclear deal was reached, Iran tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple warheads.

Quote
In March, Iran again test-fired two ballistic missiles.

More recently and for the third time, the Iranian government fired a test missile two weeks ago which was accurate to 25 feet, which is characterized as zero error, according to the Brigadier General Ali Abdollahi, the Iranian military’s deputy chief of staff, and Iran’s semi-official Tasnim news agency.

The range of existing Iranian ballistic missiles has grown from 500 miles to over 2,000 kilometers (roughly 1,250 miles), which can easily reach Eastern Europe as well as countries such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel and Yemen.


edit:
i know you specifically won't care for Brietbart, so you can ignore this next 1 if you wish.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2015/01/25/5-ways-iran-has-cheated-on-interim-nuclear-deal/
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1. Trying to buy equipment for plutonium reactor at Arak, breaking commitment to suspend work.

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2. Feeding uranium hexafluoride gas into a plant where it had agreed to suspend nuclear enrichment.

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3. Withholding camera footage of nuclear facilities, defying the International Atomic Energy Agency.

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4. Testing new IR-8 centrifuges, advancing its enrichment program and making cheating much easier.

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5. Exporting more energy than allowed under the interim agreement, blunting residual sanctions.


This post was edited by tagged4nothing on Jan 11 2020 08:04pm
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Jan 11 2020 08:12pm
Quote (tagged4nothing @ 12 Jan 2020 03:00)



hey hey, according to fender, the Iran deal "demostrably stopped Iran's whole nuclear program". dont let logic get in the way of this talking point.
they were developing those ballistic missiles to eventually arm them with firecrackers and ice cream, certainly not with nuclear warheads. :santa:

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 11 2020 08:12pm
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Jan 11 2020 08:29pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 11 2020 06:12pm)
hey hey, according to fender, the Iran deal "demostrably stopped Iran's whole nuclear program". dont let logic get in the way of this talking point.
they were developing those ballistic missiles to eventually arm them with firecrackers and ice cream, certainly not with nuclear warheads. :santa:


Yea, I don't think anyone is arguing that. I think the goal was for both sides to show some level of acting in good faith. Abandoning the development of ballistic missiles, permanently halting the enrichment process, etc. may have been on the table for future negotiations if we held up our end of the bargain. Honestly, it doesn't matter anymore and any attempt at a deal now is going to be significantly worse for Americans and Europeans. We're going to have to give up A LOT more to get what we want.
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Jan 11 2020 08:41pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jan 11 2020 08:29pm)
Yea, I don't think anyone is arguing that. I think the goal was for both sides to show some level of acting in good faith. Abandoning the development of ballistic missiles, permanently halting the enrichment process, etc. may have been on the table for future negotiations if we held up our end of the bargain. Honestly, it doesn't matter anymore and any attempt at a deal now is going to be significantly worse for Americans and Europeans. We're going to have to give up A LOT more to get what we want.


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Jan 11 2020 09:47pm
Quote (thundercock @ 12 Jan 2020 03:29)
Yea, I don't think anyone is arguing that. I think the goal was for both sides to show some level of acting in good faith. Abandoning the development of ballistic missiles, permanently halting the enrichment process, etc. may have been on the table for future negotiations if we held up our end of the bargain. Honestly, it doesn't matter anymore and any attempt at a deal now is going to be significantly worse for Americans and Europeans. We're going to have to give up A LOT more to get what we want.


wrong. we will not get what we want via negotiations anymore, no matter how much we'd be willing to give up.


what's left to stop Iran's nuclear program is military action and black ops. perhaps cyberattacks. and also destabilizing the regime with sanctions and doing anything that increases their country's internal divisions and tensions. which are playing out nicely at the moment. I just wish Trump would shut the fuck up instead of publicly siding with the protesters. he doesnt get that him tweeting in support of them actually weakens their position in the context of Iran's internal power struggle. :rolleyes:

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Jan 11 2020 09:55pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 11 2020 09:47pm)
wrong. we will not get what we want via negotiations anymore, no matter how much we'd be willing to give up.


what's left to stop Iran's nuclear program is military action and black ops. perhaps cyberattacks. and also destabilizing the regime with sanctions and doing anything that increases their country's internal divisions and tensions. which are playing out nicely at the moment. I just wish Trump would shut the fuck up instead of publicly siding with the protesters. he doesnt get that him tweeting in support of them actually weakens their position in the context of Iran's internal power struggle. :rolleyes:


So..... everything that was being done already?
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Jan 11 2020 09:57pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 12 Jan 2020 04:55)
So..... everything that was being done already?


this is not what was being done while the Iran deal was in effect.
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Jan 11 2020 09:59pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 11 2020 09:57pm)
this is not what was being done while the Iran deal was in effect.


I meant before we made a deal, that's what was being done, and it didn't seem to be working.
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Jan 11 2020 10:16pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jan 11 2020 10:59pm)
I meant before we made a deal, that's what was being done, and it didn't seem to be working.

we weren't giving them money before the deal was made.
...to break restrictions set by the deal
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