School choice and teachers unions. Yep, those are definitely the things keeping black people down. Not the history of violently destroying black communities that gained wealth. Not the systemic practice of red-lining that made it impossible for black families to develop intergenerational wealth that only went away one generation ago. Not the cycle of proactive policing and active oppression of poorer neighborhoods.

Yep, it's teacher unions and school choice.

God Bogie, you're stuck on 1980's Republican talking points.

Probably worth pointing to how some of the Republicans who voted to convict felt about Trump's conduct. These are people who are capable of feeling shame.

Murkowski:
https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1360965712806871043

Sasse:

Black people are keeping black people down. At the end of the day you have a choice. You either want to succeed of follow the steps of a black rapper who glorify hustling on the corner and sipping lean.

There's a reason you don't see white kids doing that. Because we raised different. Sure we'll have delivery service but you won't see us on the corner.

I'm not going to get bogged down in the different topics that you pivoted to. The idea that gun control is a non-issue when these thousands of murders happen via guns is a hot take.

Was I unclear about what I said? You, like most right-wingers, only bring up blacks killed from black-on-black crime when you are discussing cops murdering blacks.



Nancy commented about storm troopers when Trump had DHS agents on the streets without signifiers grabbing people up in unmarked vehicles and hauling them away. Chuck Schumer walked back those comments.

I don't know that there's a point in continuing the discussion. Your position is that an insurrection incited by the president is completely fine because Democrats(who were not the president) may have said some irresponsible things as it related to protests that were already happening across America because cops killed some black people. Those things said were not anywhere close to as irresponsible as what the president did for 2 months, but you've decided the whataboutism game matters more than holding your demented cult leader accountable.

It's disappointing to me that basically the entire right-wing(aside from The Dispatch, The Bulwark, and many at National Review) buy this sort of weak argumentation... but then again, I did call your side corrupt to the core. You guys work everyday to not change my mind.

This post was edited by IceMage on Feb 14 2021 04:34pm

We absolutely do see white kids with those problems. Thats the whole reason why the fentanyl epidemic has been taken seriously. I also know several rural white kids that got strung out on meth and ruined their lives before they were out of high school.

there was a whole massive article describing how they did this. it isnt a conspiracy theory when a major publication writes a detailed account of how the unelected mainstream media and unelected big tech monolithic oligarchs worked together to “fortify” the election result they wanted

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

trump lost the election on his own accord through short-sighted decisions in 2020. it’d be like losing a match via scoring an own goal, in essence. we’ve discussed this plenty here.

Blacks were richer in 1980's than they are today.

Democratic policy destroyed blacks on purpose.

Black on black crime is brought up ad nauseam in every conversation about crime rates in black communities. When do you expect it to be brought up, in conversations on foreign policy? It is a cheap rhetorical ploy. Blacks are killed (unarmed, by police) at a proportional rate or less given their representation in total violent crime. It is a non-issue. This isn't to say that racism doesn't exist, or that racial disparities don't exist. They do and do, but what you're defending here is just political spin. What we need to focus on, reasonably, is what the conditions are that spur very high rates of black violent crime. We need to shun the racial answers, on both left and right, that assert respectively that there is either some vast anti-black conspiracy or that blacks are somehow inferior and predisposed to crime. They're both positions which insult our general intelligence.

Blaming gun control for a high murder rate that is specific to the areas of the country with the most gun control is a hot take. If you have to parrot Democratic talking points, there are better ones to parrot.



Law enforcement tactics haven't changed, they're the same that they've been using for decades, including in multiple high profile protests (G20, etc.). They have explained and justified why they both use and need those tactics. Nancy Pelosi is well aware. She called them stormtroopers because it fit a political narrative. Nancy Pelosi's supporters are upset at the police, and Nancy Pelosi therefore needs to demonize the police. Multiple police were targeted and shot.

My position is this. There was a riot at the Capitol. A few of the individuals appear to have been coordinated. They did not possess, although it would have been inordinately easy to possess and bring, any of the weaponry (including guns and ammo) required to successfully overthrow the federal government of the United States. Therefore, calling it an "insurrection" is a histrionic overreaction. If the more concerning actions were coordinated, which it appears they were, the president cannot have incited those actions with the Jan speech the Democrats impeached him on. The President can reasonably be blamed for inspiring a portion of the anger with respect to the election results. He can and should be accorded that blame. But he was not impeached on those charges, and impeachment is a dramatic step. In that same vein, impeachment and like punishment was not considered appropriate for similar situations in the past. Therefore, we should accord to convention and avoid impeaching the President.

The allegations that voter fraud decided the 2020 federal presidential election appear almost certainly untrue. The allegations that police are hunting black man in the street are likewise untrue. The first has exacerbated widespread distrust in the electoral system. The latter has incited widespread riots that have caused multiple deaths, injuries, and billions in economic damage.

Your position is that there is a valid reason for the deaths, injuries, businesses destroyed, and economic damage which differentiates that violence from the Capitol riot. There is not. We have examined the allegations, namely, that there is widespread and unwarranted police violence that is inordinately and specifically killing black men. It is not true, this according to federal statistics which you claim to accept. If you want to make some other argument as to why there needs to be riots in the street, you are free to make it. Otherwise, it's time to hold those on "your side" to account for wanton violence that has caused far more damage, and incited far more civic strife than a three month affair that has already been satisfactorily resolved. Trump lost, Trump left, and Biden was sworn in.

This post was edited by bogie160 on Feb 15 2021 12:06am

The fundamental issue impacting American blacks is poverty. When we examine why West Virginians are poor, we don't look at the demographics (i.e. 90%+ white) and conclude that there is systematic racism against whites, we analyze what are the specific economic and social factors driving West Virginian poverty.

At some point, the Democratic party needs to own its own failures. Democrats have had complete control over state and municipal policy for decades. Black lives have not improved. As Republicans must own the impact of the more extreme economic experiments, Democrats must own the failures of policy from the Great Society onwards. It hasn't worked. You are always free to join us in reality.