Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 5 2020 07:21pm)

Pretty slow on the uptake today huh?

Schools are partially funded by local taxes. The reason why a school in the suburbs is better is because taxes there are 9x so they can afford to offer piano lessons, niche sports, etc.

A kid can make the conscious decision to not get into gangs, skip school, bring guns to school, etc. A parent can make a conscious choice to make an effort and have a two parent home, to work more to move to a better school district, etc. Government is not the backstop, parents always have been and should be.

Stop shirking all individual responsibility, blacks are not some inferior, less capable race. Plenty do quite well without your dumb ass rationalizations such as why inner city schools get less funding compared to a suburb school.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 5 2020 06:21pm)

Pretty slow on the uptake today huh?

Schools are partially funded by local taxes. The reason why a school in the suburbs is better is because taxes there are 9x so they can afford to offer piano lessons, niche sports, etc.

A kid can make the conscious decision to not get into gangs, skip school, bring guns to school, etc. A parent can make a conscious choice to make an effort and have a two parent home, to work more to move to a better school district, etc. Government is not the backstop, parents always have been and should be.

Stop shirking all individual responsibility, blacks are not some inferior, less capable race. Plenty do quite well without your dumb ass rationalizations such as why inner city schools get less funding compared to a suburb school.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 5 2020 05:44pm)

Do you guys realize that African immigrants in the US are earning more and achieving higher educational attainment than US-born blacks?

https://www.courthousenews.com/african-immigrants-doing-well-in-united-states/
https://www.blackenterprise.com/black-immigrants-in-u-s-earning-30-more-than-u-s-born-blacks/



Now, you might say that this is due to wildly different education levels, but according to
https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/04/PG_2018.04.24_Sub-Suharan-Immigrants-Profile_00-02.png
there is only a 6% gap in the rate of college education, which is a bit low to explain a 30% income difference. And that's not even taking into account the fact that high-school and college education obtained in sub-saharan African countries should normally be inferior to the same tier of education obtained in the US.


So... immigrants from piss-poor countries who have not spent enough time in the US to have built up relevant amounts of real estate property or social capital, and who look just like the native-born blacks, are still earning substantially more. How do you explain this disparity without taking a counter-productive culture of US-born blacks into account?

This comparison between native and immigrant blacks clearly shows that, on average, starting from absolute scratch in the US (while having black skin and thus facing all the discrimination that might come with it) is still better than being born to black parents and growing up in a black neighborhood in the US.

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Wayzata district/high spends $14,783 per student and has average 81.8% math proficiency and 78.6% reading proficiency (69% white, 17% asian, 6% black)
https://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/district_detail.asp?Search=1&Zip=55441&Miles=15&ID2=2742160
https://www.schooldigger.com/go/MN/schools/4216001765/school.aspx
Minneapolis district spends $19,482 per student and lets pick out Wellstone International High as our example, with an average 0.00% math proficiency (27.2% for the district total) and 0.00% reading proficiency (41.9% for the district) (52% black, 43% hispanic, 4% asian)
https://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/district_detail.asp?ID2=2721240
https://www.schooldigger.com/go/MN/schools/2124003107/school.aspx

Quote (Thor123422 @ 6 Aug 2020 01:24)

What are you even talking about? Immigrants from literally everywhere are better than the people who stay because immigrating requires significant resources and drive to even attempt.

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You're making a super shitty comparison by assuming that everybody from Africa is dirt poor. The ones who are truly dirt poor and without opportunity don't make it through the immigration process.

Quote (thesnipa @ 6 Aug 2020 02:00)

im unsure why you're speaking to me as if im saying culture doesnt play a roll. odd.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 5 2020 07:58pm)

So you admit that "drive" is a significant factor for success in life?
That's exactly what the diversity visa program ("greencard lottery") is designed to facilitate. It accounts for a substantial share of the immigration to the US from Africa. As does immigration based on family ties.
You were talking about an example of systematic discrimination, namely black people struggling to find jobs based on their "black name". My example of African immigrants and their 30% higher median incomes is a direct counter to that.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 5 2020 07:55pm)

Local taxes fund schools

Which is why laws that only ended in the 70's and 80's that made it illegal for blacks to move to the white part of town kept segregation long after it was technically illegal, until those laws were challenged in court.

Now add that red-lining made it virtually impossible for those families to get loans to buy their homes, which prevented wealth accumulation, and you've got those same people shoved in an area with low property values.

And since local property taxes fund schools, that cascaded into poorly funded schools and less economic opportunity.

Leaning on individual responsibility is just a ploy to ignore that groups of humans are not fundamentally different. We are all shaped by the societal forces on us, and when you take a group and cut off their opportunities it will result in that group being worse off.

Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 5 2020 08:45pm)

Again you guys are making that common false argument
The reality is, schools in the suburbs in rich neighborhoods with extraordinary results usually have less spending per student head than the inner city schools spend on black kids who fail miserably.
I've given examples before:



Property taxes and funds available aren't the answer here. Inner city schools are so heavily subsidized by states and have so much money thrown at them that they eclipse both quality suburban public schools and all but the most elite private schools. And they still produce generations of dropouts and gang bangers.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 5 2020 08:35pm)

Segregation, red lining, etc were a thing but at some point this crutch has to give out. My parents came to the US when i was a kid. We had nothing. I went to the same inner city middle school and high school that most black kids went to. Some of them went off to college and are doing well, some better than me. I'm the product of this public inner city education and now i'm a year away from graduating with an MBA.

There's a reason why people like Duff and i keep downplaying these perceived terrible teaching conditions or whatever other perceived inequalities that are in the inner city because reality is socialization at home is infinitely more impactful. That's why you see bootstrap immigrants coming here and eating your lunch regardless if they're poor or not. It's about having proper priorities set by your parents. It's about having two parents in the home. This is the driver that's overwhelmingly weighted.



It's all about the socialization at home. They keep deflecting and finding reason after reason not to blame the parent because it's politically unpopular but anyone with a little common sense understands the dynamic.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 5 2020 10:06pm)

You can have that kind of granularity when you are talking to an individual, but it isn't helpful when talking about groups. Material circumstance influence of culture and it also works in the reverse.

These things like redlining didn't just end. They still exist in lesser forms. The police brutality under Jim Crow and civil rights did not just go away. There's a straight line from that happening to the abuse by police today. And the line goes even further back. The same people who ordered the police attack civil rights protesters are the ones who wrote the drug laws and specifically raised sentences on things that were used by minorities.

So no, it isn't all about socialization, because socialization is influenced by your material circumstance, and the outside factors that continue 2 lower the material circumstances of these groups are still present

Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 5 2020 09:11pm)

Yet they're so difficult for you guys to point out. There's a reason why you keep talking about civil right era stuff as proof and keep evading defining what you see as unfair today.