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Dec 29 2014 12:16pm
Quote (Santara @ Dec 29 2014 01:12pm)
Strange view of what THAT union was/did =/= "what unions are." For a society emerging out of basic subsistence, I am not surprised that indentured servitude was a phase of it. Stating that I am okay with it now, or forcing people to work at gunpoint is an outright fabrication. Try harder next time.


No fabrications, Pinkertons broke strikes and forces people back to work, with guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence

It still goes on, in many of the nations we have Free Trade Agreements with. How many Catholic nuns and priests have been murdered by anti-union violence in Columbia? We just outsourced our misery elsewhere all in the name of Free Trade, a right to nullify all other rights.
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Dec 29 2014 12:30pm
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 29 2014 12:16pm)
No fabrications, Pinkertons broke strikes and forces people back to work, with guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-union_violence

It still goes on, in many of the nations we have Free Trade Agreements with.  How many Catholic nuns and priests have been murdered by anti-union violence in Columbia?  We just outsourced our misery elsewhere all in the name of Free Trade, a right to nullify all other rights.


Maybe I misspoke, or you misread. Take my previous statement as saying the fabrications are that I support/condone either. Not that they existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_violence

Still goes on, and the courts in this country even allow violence in the name of unionism without repercussions.
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Dec 29 2014 12:32pm
Quote (Santara @ Dec 29 2014 01:30pm)
Maybe I misspoke, or you misread. Take my previous statement as saying the fabrications are that I support/condone either. Not that they existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_violence

Still goes on, and the courts in this country even allow violence in the name of unionism without repercussions.


So one question....are you for Citizens United but against Unions?
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Dec 29 2014 12:53pm
Quote (RiskOfFire @ Dec 27 2014 03:24pm)
That's a very cute little bullshit story but then there's reality of how free markets work...
Able says he owns the lake, and his private property rights mean Baker and Charlie can't fish there anymore but if they work for Able he'll pay them each half a fish a day so long as they catch him 5 fish a day each.  Then Baker and Charlie can rent a shelter from Able for a quarter fish a day, and don't forget the equipment they are using, that belongs to Able to, because of his God-given property rights and all. Baker and Charlie can rent that off of him too for another 1/8 of a fish a day.  Don't forget this is all voluntary mutually beneficial exchange because if Able didn't let Baker and Charlie work for him on his divine private property they wouldn't have any fish at all.  Able is a saint, a living deity.


The restrictions are the key to your point. In a market economy, there are plenty of ways to get around the pains of monopoly. Fish has too many substitutes for a monopoly to really be harmful.

Additionally, the monopoly pricing still has to cater to market demand. Monopolies are limited in size and scope by economic nature. If a monopoly tries to grow beyond its cost restrictions, it undercuts it's own prices. Awful as monopolies may be, excessive market power doesn't imply complete pricing and selling power.

Also, the limitation on buyers, sellers and barriers to entry exclude this example as on of free markets.
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Dec 29 2014 01:57pm
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 29 2014 12:32pm)
So one question....are you for Citizens United but against Unions?


I only oppose public sector unions.
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Dec 29 2014 02:02pm
Quote (Santara @ Dec 29 2014 02:57pm)
I only oppose public sector unions.


Why should public sector employees give up their rights to speech and assembly because of the type of work they're doing, which is fundamentally necessary for the running of the state?
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Dec 29 2014 02:04pm
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 29 2014 02:02pm)
Why should public sector employees give up their rights to speech and assembly because of the type of work they're doing, which is fundamentally necessary for the running of the state?


Because it is a direct conflict of interest with serving the public.
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Dec 29 2014 02:21pm
Quote (Santara @ Dec 29 2014 08:04pm)
Because it is a direct conflict of interest with serving the public.


Are public sector employees not part of the public?
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Dec 29 2014 02:27pm
Quote (balrog66 @ Dec 29 2014 02:21pm)
Are public sector employees not part of the public?


Irrelevant. Everyone is part of "public."
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Dec 29 2014 02:32pm
Quote (Santara @ Dec 29 2014 03:27pm)
Irrelevant. Everyone is part of "public."


Why is it irrelevant? And they aren't bargaining with themselves. The National Treasury Employees Union isn't the same thing as the IRS yet you're making that conflation to arrive at your conclusion. That is faulty bro.
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