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May 7 2022 09:41am
Quote (HeLiCaL @ 7 May 2022 16:59)
false, modern societies decided abortion is murder

thats why its illegal after the first trimester , thats why you dodge this THIRD FOURTH TIME IN A ROW :rofl:

https://i.imgur.com/yPWbVVS.jpg


i'm not "dodging" you, i was just ignoring obvious idiocy and ignorance, but since you're so eager to be schooled, let me address it real quick:

- first of all, it's legal until week 22 with medical consultation
- secondly, something being illegal doesn't make it "murder". german criminal law distinguishes between many different types of homicide, illegal "termination of pregnancy" (§ 218 StGB) being just one of them. "murder" (§ 211 StGB), which carries much harsher penalties, requires specific criteria, none of which apply to abortion.
- § 218 Abs. 3 & 4 also specify that even an illegal termination of pregnancy carries lower penalties when the woman herself performs it, and that an unsuccessful attempt carries no penalties for her at all.

a woman seeking abortion is NEVER even remotely close to "murder", and at most it carries a penalty of 1 year (§ 218 Abs. 3 StGB). your claim is factually wrong, you are entirely clueless, and you should be embarrassed that you were unable to identify that i was merely giving you the opportunity to not look like a complete dumbass, but you simply HAD to insist on getting owned...

don't EVER try to lecture me about german law again, idiot.



This post was edited by fender on May 7 2022 09:56am
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May 7 2022 09:55am
Quote (fender @ May 7 2022 06:41pm)
- secondly, something being illegal doesn't make it "murder". german criminal law distinguishes between many different homicide cases, illegal "termination of pregnancy" (§ 218 StGB) being just one of them.


thanks for spelling out for us that abortion is murder, thats why its illegal after the first trimester after all

looks like modern society had its say, time to crawl back under a rock



This post was edited by HeLiCaL on May 7 2022 10:01am
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May 7 2022 09:59am
Quote (HeLiCaL @ 7 May 2022 17:55)
thanks for spelling out for us that abortion is murder

looks like modern society had its say, time to crawl back under a rock

https://i.imgur.com/3LwJ1Rw.jpg


learn to read. "murder" (§ 211 StGB) and illegal "termination of pregnancy" (§ 218 StGB) are entirely different things. they have their own paragraphs and carry vastly different penalties. you couldn't be more wrong, lol.

but hey, keep corn-cobbing and exposing your inability to comprehend even basic legal definitions...
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May 7 2022 10:02am
Quote (fender @ May 7 2022 06:59pm)
learn to read. "murder" (§ 211 StGB) and illegal "termination of pregnancy" (§ 218 StGB) are entirely different things. they have their own paragraphs and carry vastly different penalties. you couldn't be more wrong, lol.

but hey, keep corn-cobbing and exposing your inability to comprehend even basic legal definitions...


its illegal because a child is being killed
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May 7 2022 10:07am
Still trying to learn here.

What and how does science chime in into the discussion?

Or is science ignored in this part of the discussion?
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May 7 2022 10:10am
Quote (HeLiCaL @ 7 May 2022 18:02)
its illegal because a child is being killed


so you don't know the definition of "murder", and you also don't know the definition of "child" - is there anything you actually DO know?

"modern society had its say" - so you'd be happy if america treated the abortion issue like germany? i am certain american women would celebrate that - especially if that also meant adopting german state support for families and mothers in particular, comprehensive sex ed, affordable healthcare and screenings, maternity leave... oh wait, those are things anti-choicers actually hate. they just want to tell women what to do with their bodies, they couldn't care less about ACTUAL "children"...

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May 7 2022 10:21am
Quote (Slowtoanger @ May 7 2022 12:07pm)
Still trying to learn here.

What and how does science chime in into the discussion?

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-statement-draft-supreme-court-opinion

Quote
Statement attributed to:
Gerald E. Harmon, M.D.
President, American Medical Association

"The American Medical Association is deeply concerned by the contents and implications of the draft Supreme Court opinion for the Dobbs vs. Jackson Women's Health Organization case that became public this week. This opinion would lead to government interference in the patient-physician relationship, dangerous intrusion into the practice of medicine, and potentially criminalizing care. As discussed in an amicus brief (PDF) filed with the Court, the AMA and more than two dozen leading medical organizations believe abortion is safe medical care that is a decision to be made between the patient and the physician, subject to the physician's clinical judgment, and the patient's informed consent.

"With deliberations underway, we strongly urge the Court to reject the premise of the draft opinion and affirm precedent that allows patients to receive the critical reproductive health care that they need. Allowing the lawmakers of Mississippi or any other state to substitute their own views for a physician’s expert medical judgment puts patients at risk and is antithetical to public health and sound medical practice.”

Editor's note: An AMA Viewpoint was published last fall in advance of the Supreme Court oral arguments which discusses AMA policy on abortion.


Question answered.


This post was edited by Skinned on May 7 2022 10:23am
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May 7 2022 10:28am
Quote (Skinned @ May 7 2022 09:21am)


Sorry, I should have specified.

I'm still on the question of "where does life begin" question.

I guess I was asking if there are scientists or organization that speaks on that specifically.

Thanks for the website. Will be digging around to learn.
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May 7 2022 10:35am
Quote (Slowtoanger @ May 7 2022 12:28pm)
Sorry, I should have specified.

I'm still on the question of "where does life begin" question.

I guess I was asking if there are scientists or organization that speaks on that specifically.

Thanks for the website. Will be digging around to learn.


Oh, lol, that isn't a question that humans are qualified to answer. That is the integral opinion in Roe vs Wade, is that this is a philosophical question that has been debated since before nurture vs nature and other philosophical dichotomies that have been debated since Aristotle and Plato, and taking a side right now is like saying that Aristotle is wrong and Plato is right, right now, here and now, and how such a thing would be an incredibly arrogant thing to do. It acknowledges that it will create problems with people who have less restraint in the face of these kinds of things. Now it states that there is a point where the state gets a say in the matter, after the first trimester, which is when the thing inside starts to become human itself.

The people trying to ban abortion attempted to ban ectopic abortions in a state, knowing that not doing one would kill the mother and the child. That is how crazy these people actually are. They don't care about philosophy, just vulgar displays of power of state over the human body. Biopower of state is growing.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 7 2022 10:36am
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May 7 2022 10:44am
Quote (Skinned @ May 7 2022 09:35am)
Oh, lol, that isn't a question that humans are qualified to answer. That is the integral opinion in Roe vs Wade, is that this is a philosophical question that has been debated since before nurture vs nature and other philosophical dichotomies that have been debated since Aristotle and Plato, and taking a side right now is like saying that Aristotle is wrong and Plato is right, right now, here and now, and how such a thing would be an incredibly arrogant thing to do. It acknowledges that it will create problems with people who have less restraint in the face of these kinds of things. Now it states that there is a point where the state gets a say in the matter, after the first trimester, which is when the thing inside starts to become human itself.

The people trying to ban abortion attempted to ban ectopic abortions in a state, knowing that not doing one would kill the mother and the child. That is how crazy these people actually are. They don't care about philosophy, just vulgar displays of power of state over the human body. Biopower of state is growing.


Ah I see. But when it's left up to the philosophy to be the point of discussion in that question, doesn't that GIVE the room for theology to chime in and make points?

And, is that truly the prolifers stance? To fully ban even ectopic abortions? (or is that a small minority like how there are some prochoice people who would be okay with abortion all the way until birth?)

I guess I'm trying to figure out why science (more specifically biology which is the study of life for goodness sake) doesn't have much say in it.
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