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Sep 7 2016 05:21am
Quote (majorblood @ Sep 7 2016 06:04am)
Refugees/open borders can't work in a state with government enforced welfare so that ideal is just not possible in the USA.

http://digital.vpr.net/post/reversal-gov-gary-johnson-now-supports-mandatory-vaccination#stream/0 specifically on vaccinations, what recent interviews are you talking about?

I don't care about Watson and just saw this video from a friend. The video is most definitely a hit piece and I think Gary Johnson appears unhinged as a candidate, his rhetoric is not very persuasive, and his positions seem inconsistent with libertarian ideology.
On the BLM note what about where Gary Johnson specifically goes against the narrative of "all lives matter" while supporting BLM?

This isn't talking about anti-police brutality as a whole, it's addressing BLM's talking points of racism. "No reason at all" is completely dishonest.

or

to me he really comes off as a left wing SJW on a lot of issues rather than libertarian.


Libertarians tend to be left-wing social justice warriors on social issues bro.

Social libertarian literally means that everybody should be free in terms of social issues. People can't be free if the state is telling who is allowed to get married or use the bathroom wear in arbitrary ways decided by men who are holding temporal power who have the power to pick winners and losers in the body politic.. You need an equal baseline of civil rights.

The only social libertarians on JSP as I see it are some Liberals here. The people that call themselves libertarian on JSP often are just pro-corporate power vs. governmental power, they still don't champion equal rights, rights for women and minorities, etc. These are all libertarian ideas.

And of course there is widespread racism in America. Only an idiot doesn't know that. Having a black president doesn't automatically make Jamal get a job interview when a Steve is available to call.

This post was edited by Skinned on Sep 7 2016 05:22am
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Sep 7 2016 05:23am
Quote (duffman316 @ Sep 5 2016 04:54pm)
blessed snowflake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7SlkY3T3bU


Talking fast and using words like "systematic oppression" win over all the under-educated darkies.
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Sep 7 2016 05:33am
Quote (IceMage @ Sep 7 2016 06:23am)
Talking fast and using words like "systematic oppression" win over all the under-educated darkies.


She seemed like a bright young girl who is asking some very hard questions to her professor who seems to be engaging the children in critical education.

He was probably very proud of her as she made her point, which was valid.

I think Duffman is just intimidated by articulate women.

Quote (waynemaster887 @ Sep 7 2016 04:05am)
Yeah he´s a disgrace for all true libertarians.^^


He is the only candidate a libertarian can vote for without completely selling out their principles.

This post was edited by Skinned on Sep 7 2016 05:35am
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Sep 7 2016 05:38am
Quote (Skinned @ Sep 7 2016 06:33am)
She seemed like a bright young girl who is asking some very hard questions to her professor who seems to be engaging the children in critical education.

He was probably very proud of her as she made her point, which was valid.

I think Duffman is just intimidated by articulate women.


She'll have to talk faster and louder if she ever wants to be taken seriously in academia.

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Sep 7 2016 05:47am
Quote (majorblood @ Sep 7 2016 07:04am)
Refugees/open borders can't work in a state with government enforced welfare so that ideal is just not possible in the USA.

Yes welfare needs reform and is problematic with open borders.
Some level of refugees and immigrants certainly can work and does work, even when welfare exists.
Some are privately sponsored. Others come to work and associate with americans who contract with them and benefit us via commerce.
Bashing someone as 'not libertarian' for not closing off borders completely is invalid.

Quote (isidewith)
Should the U.S. accept refugees from Syria?
Gary Johnson’s answer: Yes, but only after extensive background checks and continuous monitoring to ensure they have no terrorist connections

Nor is he for unlimited refugees.

Quote (majortom)
http://digital.vpr.net/post/reversal-gov-gary-johnson-now-supports-mandatory-vaccination#stream/0 specifically on vaccinations, what recent interviews are you talking about?

Quote (reason.com)
GILLESPIE: Let's talk about vaccines. There are no federal laws mandating vaccines, and that's how it should be, as far as you're concerned.
JOHNSON: Yes.

GILLESPIE: Various states treat vaccines differently, and you're not wild about the range of individual choice and opt-out provisions, but you do believe it's a state-level decision—or certainly that it's not a federal-level decision.
JOHNSON: Right.

GILLESPIE: There are people who say vaccines cause autism [and other problems] or that vaccines don't work. Are you in that camp?
JOHNSON: No, I chose to have my children vaccinated. I understand all the concerns that some people have, but for me personally, I made a decision to have my children vaccinated. I want people to make decisions and I believe in [opt-outs]. With the exception of a few states, everyone has an opt-out. But I also want to say that, as president of the United States, if I am confronted with a zombie apocalypse that will happen unless the total herd is totally immunized, I will support [mandatory vaccinations].

Oh zombie apocalypse vaccinations? STATIST! gottem. B)

Quote
I don't care about Watson and just saw this video from a friend. The video is most definitely a hit piece and I think Gary Johnson appears unhinged as a candidate, his rhetoric is not very persuasive, and his positions seem inconsistent with libertarian ideology.
On the BLM note what about where Gary Johnson specifically goes against the narrative of "all lives matter" while supporting BLM?

Yes he is sometimes inconsistent with libertarian ideology. He has a poor libertarian knowledge base and cant always clearly explain his views. Hes flawed, for sure.
He has more experience in governing and is still the most libertarian running by far.
Speaking out against 'all lives matter' saying they miss the point isn't some heinous crime. Many ALM proponents are neocons and copsuckers..thats certainly not inherently libertarian either.
I shit on BLM supporters alot on jsp, but its another complicated issue with some valid and lousy pieces on both sides. I think the focus on race is overplayed, but there is a problem with police violence that libertarians oppose.

When you only look at the gaffes and bad moments hes going to appear worse than he is on the whole.

Quote
This isn't talking about anti-police brutality as a whole, it's addressing BLM's talking points of racism. "No reason at all" is completely dishonest.
Quote
to me he really comes off as a left wing SJW on a lot of issues rather than libertarian.

Yes he parrots some BLM talking points and I would have a more nuanced approach and message.
"no reason at all" appears to be a narration by someone else, not a direct quote.

As skinned noted (minus the trolling and nonsense) they aren't always mutually exclusive.
Some of it might be distasteful or we might have a difference of opinion, but thats not really the big libertarian issue.
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Sep 7 2016 05:52am
Quote (IceMage @ Sep 7 2016 06:38am)
She'll have to talk faster and louder if she ever wants to be taken seriously in academia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8


In academia you aren't even at the grownups table until you have a PhD. I have yet to be invited and may never be.

Undergrads aren't supposed to know anything, at least until they are almost finished with the program.

High school kids even less.

I mean, Duffman (and many others) is/are posting Youtube videos of kids and forming his worldview on that. That is more profoundly stupid than any particular thing I've heard said in any particular youtube video posted.

Maybe people who don't understand the Socratic Method of education should understand what they're observing before they judge? Racism was never talked about in my school and we actually had white vs black gang wars going on in my school and schools across the US in the 1990s....now the gang wars aren't happening and the kids are talking about it openly with their teachers. This is real progress man.

This post was edited by Skinned on Sep 7 2016 05:53am
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Sep 7 2016 06:00am
Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 7 2016 06:47am)
Yes welfare needs reform and is problematic with open borders.
Some level of refugees and immigrants certainly can work and does work, even when welfare exists.
Some are privately sponsored. Others come to work and associate with americans who contract with them and benefit us via commerce.
Bashing someone as 'not libertarian' for not closing off borders completely is invalid.


Nor is he for unlimited refugees.



Oh zombie apocalypse vaccinations? STATIST! gottem. B)


Yes he is sometimes inconsistent with libertarian ideology. He has a poor libertarian knowledge base and cant always clearly explain his views. Hes flawed, for sure.
He has more experience in governing and is still the most libertarian running by far.
Speaking out against 'all lives matter' saying they miss the point isn't some heinous crime. Many ALM proponents are neocons and copsuckers..thats certainly not inherently libertarian either.
I shit on BLM supporters alot on jsp, but its another complicated issue with some valid and lousy pieces on both sides. I think the focus on race is overplayed, but there is a problem with police violence that libertarians oppose.

When you only look at the gaffes and bad moments hes going to appear worse than he is on the whole.


Yes he parrots some BLM talking points and I would have a more nuanced approach and message.
"no reason at all" appears to be a narration by someone else, not a direct quote.

As skinned noted (minus the trolling and nonsense) they aren't always mutually exclusive.
Some of it might be distasteful or we might have a difference of opinion, but thats not really the big libertarian issue.


If immigrants are coming here, working, and paying taxes like they are, then why shouldn't they be able to access some of what they pay for?

I'm not saying this is the situation as it is, welfare in every state as I understand it requires citizenship except for very few cases (work visas, contractors, etc) and doesn't include things like direct cash aid to families.

I'm thinking we should almost abandon the word "welfare" altogether because it seems hard to have a productive conversation about it when that word is used. People in health care are saying the same thing about the word "cancer" as it is a word representing an abstract idea and there are more specific words available that aren't as loaded nor have as much baggage. Carcinoma is more accurate and doesn't have nearly all the feelings tied with it, or the other technical terms for it that clinicians use. Welfare is like this too...literally nobody can imagine it in a neutral context.

But my question is that since immigrants are coming here, paying taxes on all that they consume and do, why not reap the benefits of their labor? Maybe some health care for their kids who weren't born here (the ones not naturalized Americans).

For you Cam:



There is a lot of spin going on though. Like this: http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/25/gary-johnson-is-a-left-wing-candidate/

The article states that Johnson is a left wing candidate because he wants to save the mountains he loves to climb. Not really fair right there. A carbon tax itself isn't big government, and can very much be limited government. It isn't no government, but Libertarians themselves say they aren't anarchists.

This post was edited by Skinned on Sep 7 2016 06:17am
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Sep 7 2016 03:52pm
Quote (majorblood @ Sep 6 2016 10:47pm)
What Gary Johnson says in the video is more important than whoever made the video.


If anyone doesn't like what is said in the video, it easier to criticize the video.

Kimda like saying rallies are just a chance to indoctrinate people with your perspective.

I never found criticizing the medium was very effective.
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Sep 7 2016 04:05pm
Quote (card_sultan @ Sep 7 2016 05:52pm)
If anyone doesn't like what is said in the video, it easier to criticize the video.

Kimda like saying rallies are just a chance to indoctrinate people with your perspective.

I never found criticizing the medium was very effective.


I went over exactly what was wrong in the video and pointed out the ridiculous double standard.
Thats how these things work. You know, having arguments and on topic comments and stuff. i know i know, these are new concepts to you. But to try to bear with me.
(no, not the animal)
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Sep 7 2016 04:34pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 7 2016 12:05pm)
I went over exactly what was wrong in the video and pointed out the ridiculous double standard.
Thats how these things work. You know, having arguments and on topic comments and stuff. i know i know, these are new concepts to you. But to try to bear with me.
(no, not the animal)


I know, i never heard you criticize all video in general, so my comment wasn't about your opinion, just that some people think its an augment to claim - "omg its a video" instead of talking about the opinions expressed in the footage.
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