Quote (NatureNames @ Oct 23 2014 01:36pm)

I didn't read anything in this topic but i wanted to comment about the title. It is unfair to group agnostics with atheists. While atheists have more credibility than a religious person, if somebody (an atheist) believes they can definitively know there isn't any god(s), then they are arguably delusional in a similar way as a religious person. Until you unravel the mysteries of the universe, you cant say with certainty that there is no deity of some sort. I'm almost certain there is no gods, but I simply don't know. Nobody knows. Nobody can know. If you think you know, you need to check your facts. The only rational, logical, educated stance to have regarding the existence of deities is agnostic. While some scientists like to carry around the atheist flag or the religious flag, the majority are undeniably agnostic. Agnostic isn't a belief, its just how the cookie crumbles. It's reality.

Quote (Scaly @ Oct 23 2014 10:01am)

Found it - http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71539220&f=27 Starts around post#33 and gets progressively more mental.

One hell of a read into the learned ignorance of people who listen to christian and creationist apologists.

Seriously sick of getting WLC quoted at me.

Quote (Scaly @ Oct 23 2014 01:01pm)

Found it - http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71539220&f=27 Starts around post#33 and gets progressively more mental.

One hell of a read into the learned ignorance of people who listen to christian and creationist apologists.

Seriously sick of getting WLC quoted at me.

Quote (2sexy4u @ Oct 23 2014 02:46pm)

Most atheist are actually not 100% sure that God does not exist, so you can consider them to be agnostic. That's why i included both term in title.

Your view about God existence is exact same as me, and most people consider me as a atheist.

Quote (dark-soul @ Oct 23 2014 10:07pm)

You're stronger than me. I do not have the patience to deal with creationists like that. Most of the time they didn't even bother to read your posts and simply responded with some bs.

Quote (BardOfXiix @ Oct 23 2014 10:08pm)

You can be an agnostic theist as well.

Quote (dark-soul @ 24 Oct 2014 03:07)

You're stronger than me. I do not have the patience to deal with creationists like that. Most of the time they didn't even bother to read your posts and simply responded with some bs.

Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 23 2014 08:08pm)

you're speaking the wrong language if you're trying to use evidence to convince such people


not know but believe etc. ?

Quote (BardOfXiix @ 24 Oct 2014 03:23)

Yes, belief in x but admitting that it is impossible to be certain x is true.  That's a form of agnosticism.

Quote (Vivienne @ 3 Jan 2014 00:12)

Because the very definition of the word is 'without theism' not 'against theism'

Has anyone accused someone who is asexual of not believing sex exists? Someone who is amoral of not believing morals exist? It is possible tthatthey could but it is not a requirement that they do.

Only in atheism is this somehow implied by people. It's ridiculous... and it's only used because people who wish to argue against atheism know that an assertion on the nature of the divine is an indefensible position in any argument. Though somehow they often fail to apply that same logic to the absurdity of claiming that God definitely does exist and not only that but that he is their own particular version of god, Judeo Christian, Dharmic whatever...

Atheism is 'without god'

Antitheism is 'against god'

So when we are talking about belief an atheist is without belief in god, an antitheist is against the idea that god exists and as such believes the opposite.

to be an Atheist it is only a requirement that you be 'without god', that is you make no positive assertions about god's existence in one form or another. You can also be antitheistic, because you are not making a positive assertion on the nature of the divine but only a negative one i.e. 'god does not exist' You can also be agnostic because you are not making a positive assertion on the nature of god, you can still be positive on the situation i.e' I believe a god or gods probably exist' but you cannot make a positive assertion i.e. 'God definitely exists' and still be an atheist.

To be an antitheist it is required that you believe there is no god. That is you make a negative assertion on the nature of the divine i.e. 'God does not exist'.

Quote (NatureNames @ Oct 23 2014 12:36pm)

I didn't read anything in this topic but i wanted to comment about the title. It is unfair to group agnostics with atheists. While atheists have more credibility than a religious person, if somebody (an atheist) believes they can definitively know there isn't any god(s), then they are arguably delusional in a similar way as a religious person. Until you unravel the mysteries of the universe, you cant say with certainty that there is no deity of some sort. I'm almost certain there is no gods, but I simply don't know. Nobody knows. Nobody can know. If you think you know, you need to check your facts. The only rational, logical, educated stance to have regarding the existence of deities is agnostic. While some scientists like to carry around the atheist flag or the religious flag, the majority are undeniably agnostic. Agnostic isn't a belief, its just how the cookie crumbles. It's reality.

Quote (sir_lance_bb @ 24 Oct 2014 03:49)

You can be agnostic and atheist.

Atheism is generally determined by if you have belief a god does or does not exist. Agnosticism is based on whether or not you claim a god does or does not exist.

I'm not sure why people are so hell bent on thinking being atheist means you are claiming god doesn't exist. Some atheists do but the heart of what atheism is not having belief in god/gods which is different than claiming if they do or don't.